Sorry, but no tank should pure vit stack right side.

[Syzygian]

The parry on your accessories isn't doing nearly as much as you may think it is. There are numbers floating around somewhere on here that show just how terrible parry scaling is. It's something along the lines of needing max parry value in every single gear slot to go up a few percent on your parry chance. It's hardly worth it and you will definitely see better results by opting for DPS secondaries regardless of your oGCD being tied to parry.

I'm fully aware of how parry scales, and tanks that are not disfavoring parry completely or going out of their way to do so are achieving about 30% parry rates, DRK's have a CD that increases it further, and as I said, a lot of off-GCD DPS returns from it, arguably rendering any 1-2% gains you see from favoring a DPS secondary moot. Get DRK to 60 then we'll talk. It plays very different from WAR.

[Tyrial]

I'm fully aware of how parry scales, and tanks that are not disfavoring parry completely or going out of their way to do so are achieving about 30% parry rates, DRK's have a CD that increases it further, and as I said, a lot of off-GCD DPS returns from it, arguably rendering any 1-2% gains you see from favoring a DPS secondary moot. Get DRK to 60 then we'll talk. It plays very different from WAR.

What you're saying would be like a PLD trying to say that they get a lot of DPS off of shield swipe so they're prioritizing block rate+ gear(if it actually was a thing) over something else non-RNG, all because when that proc actually did happen the skill tied to it was oGCD. I don't need a DRK leveled to understand how their skills work and the fact that parry is a garbage stat outside of huge trash pulls in dungeons.

[ArdorGrey]

I'm fully aware of how parry scales, and tanks that are not disfavoring parry completely or going out of their way to do so are achieving about 30% parry rates, DRK's have a CD that increases it further, and as I said, a lot of off-GCD DPS returns from it, arguably rendering any 1-2% gains you see from favoring a DPS secondary moot. Get DRK to 60 then we'll talk. It plays very different from WAR.

That was the amount they used to be able to achieve, with upwards of 40% for parry stacking but parry was further nerfed with HW, even though people already didnt use it. I'll fully admit I haven't done extensive testing myself, but I've seen numerous other threads on here with drk mains saying exactly what tyrial is saying and the exact opposite of what you're saying. They've just faded since the pld issus have become a thing.

And yes I have drk at 60 and am fully aware of the parry procs you speak of.

[Syzygian]

What you're saying would be like a PLD trying to say that they get a lot of DPS off of shield swipe so they're prioritizing block rate+ gear(if it actually was a thing) over something else non-RNG, all because when that proc actually did happen the skill tied to it was oGCD. I don't need a DRK leveled to understand how their skills work and the fact that parry is a garbage stat outside of huge trash pulls in dungeons.

The point is I don't favor DPS secondaries, I don't disfavor my parry stat, and I'm still able to pull close to 900 DPS in savage while stance dancing with pentamelds, and I get procs pretty much constantly. The DPS secondaries are equally useless on DRK. STR is really the only thing that makes a noticeable difference in the scope of contributing to your raid's overall DPS.

The WAR in my static has a very similar mentality to yours, and when he asked me what my BiS was looking like and I replied with something along the lines of "I don't subscribe to the idea of a BiS because I constantly switch out gear depending on the needs of the party and the encounter in terms of STR and VIT, sometimes even on a pull-by-pull basis" he actually reacted very respectfully, as did the rest of the group. DPS should worry about BiS because they have literally nothing riding on their gear other than damage. As a tank you should be more flexible and adaptable because a lot more is riding on your gear than just your damage. Maybe for WAR its different since they are really designed more like a DPS, but that's a flaw in WAR's design, not in the design of the other tanks.

[Jpec07]

Dps shouldn't have to throttle dps<snip>

Yes, they should.

[ArdorGrey]

Yes, they should.

Wow, that's just sad. You expect the entire run to slow down and every player to cater to you because you want 500 more hp?

[Jpec07]

Wow, that's just sad. You expect the entire run to slow down and every player to cater to you because you want 500 more hp?

The is does not define the ought. Sure, right now DPS have an entitlement complex that says "I'm going to do whatever the hell I want." They don't think they have any responsibility to control their own threat generation, because since ~level 35 in 2.0, they haven't really had to worry about it.

All of the sudden it's an issue again, and DPS are whining because they suddenly have to take responsibility for their big numbers.

If the DPS is pulling off the tank for ANY reason, they need to use any redirect skills they have and throttle/stop their DPS.

What if the tank is undergeared?

What if they're new?

What if full 210 Slaying accessories would do nothing to help?

It's the way the trinity works. If the healers or the DPS pulls off the tank (while the tank is doing their job normally), they need to take steps to stop generating as much threat as they are. It's really just as simple as that.

[KeluBehemoth]

Unless your tank is in greens you shouldn't be throttling your DPS AT ALL.

Even when I was in i170 the only time I lost threat was during big pulls was when I'm slapping my DoTs on all the mobs and maybe needed to throw down another unleash or AD.

All this being said.

Tank should NEVER be wearing STR accessories during big trash pulls. The amount of AOE threat you need to maintain outside of your DPS combo is absolute peanuts compared to the AOE DPS that the healer can do.

STR accessories should only ever be worn for MTing single targets in dungeons and raids that you and your group are experienced and comfortable with.

[Tyrial]

All this being said.

Tank should NEVER be wearing STR accessories during big trash pulls. The amount of AOE threat you need to maintain outside of your DPS combo is absolute peanuts compared to the AOE DPS that the healer can do.

STR accessories should only ever be worn for MTing single targets in dungeons and raids that you and your group are experienced and comfortable with.

I'll agree with everything but this...if I were to run full vit over full slaying or even my pentamelds I'd be gimping my effectiveness and survivability on the pull. As it stands now, I can pull a shit ton of mobs, get my stacks, drop vengeance and lay waste to everything all while keeping myself alive and allowing the healer to still DPS if they know wtf they're doing. I regularly tie or beat my SMN friend on large pulls if I have my CDs available.

[Xyphon]

Despite how many times this argument comes up it never gets old. I was probably the one advocating full vit pre hw, and did so since 2.0. Then hw came around. I decided to test str as I lvled from 50 to 60 as a tank. I never had any issues the entire time, and cleared hw several days after it was fully released (early access ftw).

Now, what I used to do for "speed runs" was I would slap on full vit for trash, and swap to full str for bosses. It worked pretty well and I never had any healers crying about how much dmg I was taking. Why? Proper management of defensive cooldowns. I think this is the problem most tanks have, and its the reason the tanks rocking STR get so much heat. If you can't even properly rotate your defensive cooldowns, don't bother going full str (or let alone dropping your tank stance).

These are the tanks I see pop every defensive cooldown as soon as they are up. Rotating cooldowns is even easier if you know what's coming at you aka *ravens beak*, *mountain buster*, or etc.

Since there also doesn't seem to be an enmity ceiling, you can go far enough ahead of dps while being in full str gear; that you got plenty of time to breath. I experienced in my static what it means to be only "one" step ahead of dps in terms of enmity, and trust me it was very nerve racking. This was the basis for why I started experimenting with str.

Back to having the threat lead, depending on the tank job ; it gives you room to either do more dps rotations or for example on pld start using clemency/stoneskin. I'm not going to knock any tank who is in full vit; because they wish to play it safe. I personally always carry a set of vit acc around in case a healer isn't comfortable with my total hp. The funny part is since the release of hw, I never had any healer ask me to switch to vit gear.