According to the survey, an equal number of people play the tank and healer roles

[Aeyis]

Unsolicited advice (regardless of intention or culture) is almost always unwelcome and considered extremely rude.

My. Now that is a very bold claim.

And for whatever reason, it's mostly represented only in English-speaking MMO players.

And Spanish. Dont forget French. German. I could mention a few more, but those are the ones people tend to overgeneralise the most.
If on the other hand you are comparing English speaking with just Japanese speaking, I'd agree tho.

Moral of the story: think before you say something. Doubly think before you say something stupid. And, if you don't have anything nice to say, then it's best to keep it to yourself.

Saying something stupid is fine. As long as you know how to be embarressed about it afterwards. Not saying something stupid but keeping it to yourself is hardly a good thing.


And that Chimera thing...have any of you considered what your healer might be thinking when that happens? Because from experience I can assure you it isnt pretty, and it most definately will be directed at you (the tank).

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The biggest reason I avoid tanking in DF is two fold.

Firstly, the tank job I enjoy playing, Warrior, gets a lot of flak especially here on these forums, so I'd rather not risk getting McDouche the ego healer that thinks they know more about my job than me.

Secondly, I'm not particularly confident in myself, so I'd much rather go with friends when possible.

[Derio]

Too much pressure/ responsibility for some.

I however like the challenge. Leading the troops into battle. I think the numbers are right though. I have partially leveled a WHM and have fully leveled my scholar and have all 180 gear on my scholar. However I dont heal with my scholar unless its for an unsynched instance or for a hunt or special fate.

Perhaps the data just confirms that most people who tank or heal are versatile and have multiple jobs leveled.

I think the healer job is more difficult than the tank job. When I first started playing this game my main was a SMN. When I got tired of long que times I chose to become a tank, became a PLD, lvld WHM, then lvld WAR, and now a DRK. I notice there are alot more mechanics you need to know as a tank than as a dps or healer. Perhaps that is why people dont like to tank.

And I have seen many times that the DF needs a Healer rather than a tank, but mostly for lower level content and old trials people need a tank.

[Kyonika]

Respect works both ways which is something most of the Tanks in this thread seem to fail to grasp and doing something sub optimal is not being respectful towards the group either this goes for all ROLES.

And they have to learn somewhere, or sometime: we all do. Did it ever occur to you that they might be new? Or even new to tanking? Berating them, or making them feel stupid by offering unsolicited advice isn't helping them. You might think that it's a kindness, or a social duty, but it's actually a cruelty. When things are new to someone, they want to try different things out, to see what works and what doesn't. It's not your place to judge. ... So like, what divine God Animal died and made you his retainer to pass on "thy divine message for all the new and misguided tanks out there?" Who are you to tell/teach them without their prior request or consent? And, what drove you to take up the Holy Mantle of Poo-Bah Master Instructor of Tank-tastical Tanky-ness?

I tank myself and it's quite baffling the general mentality Tanks have

You tank too? Great, that's awesome! ...So do I, btw -- or at least I'd like to say that... But, I refuse to inflict my tanky n00bness on my fellow gamers (personal choice), until I get a lot more familiar with all the dungeons and fights. So, I stick to heals or DPS instead (since I'm good at it).

So, anyways, you can speak from your own experience. That's cool. But, that doesn't mean it's the same as everyone else's experience. Some people learn best by watching; some by reading; some by listening; and, some by doing. Some people need to fail before they can succeed; others get it the first try. Everyone's different, and enjoying this game differently. Telling them -- especially 指示厨 style -- will only serve to stifle their growth as players, and make them resent other players in the process. Unless, of course, they ask for advice first. Then, and only then, might it be welcome (if the rest of the group is okay with it tho) -- but done so politely, of course.

like Arabian Wolf for example, by purposely trolling the run and abusing the vote kick function because they can't admit perhaps they are doing something wrong which seems to be an everyday thing for them judging from past posts which says a lot about themselves.

I wouldn't call it "trolling the run and abusing the vote kick function." You, or those like you, started something by saying something that's perceived as rude. Soooo ... (Cont'd from the learning types etc. above) ... And then there are some people that learn the hard way. lel

I'm sorry but the people you think that like feeling Elite don't even touch DF because of folk like yourself and I can't blame em half the time.

Then that's their choice. It's theirs, and I'm not one to take away personal choice.

----



You see, when I group up -- and this is also true with the JP community, and the small so-called "外人" community as well -- I/we will let the other players play as they want - even if they cause a wipe or two. Because, it's assumed that they know the fights, or at least will learn from their mistakes. Most will typically let mistakes go by with a "どま" (np) ..especially if there is a sincere "すみません" or "ごめんなさい" (I'm sorry) before hand. On harder fights or dungeons, there might be a "だれがここに初めてですか？" (Is anyone here for the first time?) Which is a hint to ask for help or tips if you are new. Again, the onus is on oneself to take responsibility, do your best, and put the group before yourself. Paying it forward -- on respect and all -- as it were. I know to many NA players, this is culturally the backwards and completely opposite to what most do. But, by putting the group ahead of yourself, usually leads to better preparation before hand, and smoother cleaner runs; since, everyone is expected (and working hard) to do their best.

[Kyonika]

Sounds like the JP analog for elitist.

Something like that. Yes.

My. Now that is a very bold claim.

It implies human emotions transcend culture: they are ubiquitous. Intentions can be good or ill, but the effect is the same. Hurt pride, embarrassment, feeling inept, feeling out of place, feeling mistrustful of others, etc.

And Spanish. Dont forget French. German. I could mention a few more, but those are the ones people tend to overgeneralise the most.
If on the other hand you are comparing English speaking with just Japanese speaking, I'd agree tho.

English speakers tend to be the loudest, since it's so widespread the world over. But, maybe "over-represented in English-speaking MMO players" may be more accurate. And, yes, for my purposes of illustration, I was mostly just comparing English to Japanese.

Saying something stupid is fine. As long as you know how to be embarressed about it afterwards. Not saying something stupid but keeping it to yourself is hardly a good thing.

That's why you gotta doubly think

And that Chimera thing...have any of you considered what your healer might be thinking when that happens? Because from experience I can assure you it isnt pretty, and it most definately will be directed at you (the tank).

It was still a funny read though. lol

[Bhuni]

Blah

I personally never need to 'berate' as you put it anyone wanna know why? Because folk are fulfilling their roles if it's a common occurrence for you you're making the run more painful than it should be.

Being new doesn't excuse a level 60 Tank from keeping threat on all mobs nor a level 60 DPS doing damage they should of being doing at level 50 for example so it's a really lame wall to hide behind especially when majority of content in this game doesn't ask much of folk.

I'm not sure why you're making me out to be someone I'm not though, perhaps you should redirect your anger towards those folk who kicked you for raging and not listening to sound advice.

[Vickii]

I asked my (really well geared) tank friend why he didn't run duty finder and he said because he didn't have to. He can get a group just by saying 'i'm gonna go run xxx' in his FC or starting a party finder.

As a healer, I don't really have that luxury. I guess tanks kinda can do what they want because they're so in need, especially if they're good.

[Arabian_Wolf]

Arabian Wolf for example, by purposely trolling the run and abusing the vote kick function because they can't admit perhaps they are doing something wrong which seems to be an everyday thing for them judging from past posts which says a lot about themselves.

Maybe you still can't grasp my 1st reply in this thread about "unconstructive critisism" or you purposly just skipped through it I have no clue, but if as you said you checked my posts here I bet you ran into one of my stories with a DPS.

Good thing you are not in the same data center as mine otherwise if I meet you in DF and you started your typical trolling like here I will be sure to troll you back tenfolds and vote kick you, and if you teach my about my job even if I am well versed on it I will take it to heart, but that won't happen.

I am indeed far from being a perfect player but still grasp te basic about my job be it tank or dps (never been into healing).

Vote dismiss FTW.

[Kalsam]

-snip-

Oh, wasn't saying you specifically were to blame for doing that. Just was quoting you cause you had the part in what you said that was more or less what I was gonna say is the reason so few tanks queue up.
I can get the whole "don't wanna wipe and wipe and wipe" idea. But you also mentioned in your post you'll tell them. So it's NOT just you covering them, you're also telling them. Whether they choose to listen or not is on them from that point on.

Neither role is "easier" to play. Each has a spot they shine in. And from experience, it seems to be about 50-50 on who'll get blamed most. Seems to be based on the following:
-If the tank or highest dps died first, it's the healers fault.
-If anyone else died first, it's the tanks fault.

I try to watch everything around me at all times so I KNOW who is to fault for anything... and I'll call that person out.
Like an A4 I ran recently. One DRG kept moving on top of me while I was MT'ing. So when I died, I immediately called them by name and told them that splash damage from the lasers is what killed me.
One of the healers backed me up, cause they'd seen the DRG do it. But one of the dps tried to pin it on me, Saying -I- should have moved, when the DRG shouldn't have even been on my side of the boss anyway. (Since it would put him in "front"... nerfing his dps >.<)

[Arabian_Wolf]

I personally never need to 'berate' as you put it anyone wanna know why? Because folk are fulfilling their roles if it's a common occurrence for you you're making the run more painful than it should be.

Being new doesn't excuse a level 60 Tank from keeping threat on all mobs nor a level 60 DPS doing damage they should of being doing at level 50 for example so it's a really lame wall to hide behind especially when majority of content in this game doesn't ask much of folk.

I'm not sure why you're making me out to be someone I'm not though, perhaps you should redirect your anger towards those folk who kicked you for raging and not listening to sound advice.

Being a summoner main you seem to not understand how tanking work especially if tank is undergeared and DPS is well-geared.

So keep your nonsense to yourself until you understand how tanking can get annoying for a fresh 60.