Save the Armory system

[Konachibi]

I'm not entirely sure what the OP is trying to get at here. From what I've heard about the job system, and as you stated yourself, jobs are 'advanced classes'. Basically, that's a class of your choosing, that you use to specify your role in combat with more defenition. At the moment it's easy to have a tank with healing skills, and healing skills create LOADS of enmity, so the tank sits on auto-attack and heals themself whenever health gets low, they tank fine, and don't need a healer, which means the other player who's levelled thaumaturge and conjurer to be healer-specific is now inherently useless except for buffing and DD. Classes are nice, but they can get confusing as there's no specifics to them in any way. With jobs, tanks will now JUST BE tanks, they'll tank well, probably better than a Gladiator or other tank class, but will need a healer to help them along, so he waves to the White Mage, thus pulling people away from soloing the entire game because they can tank + heal + DD by themselves, and slowly drawing them in to socialising and playing with other people, therefore fulfilling the purpose of the online multiplayer genre.

Plus no one said jobs couldn't use multiple types of weaponry, Thief may be able to use knives AND swords, Paladins may be able to use sword + shield or two-handed, no specifics have been given about how jobs will operate or what they can use, so trying to pick faults on it when it isn't even readily available to find those faults with is a little presumptious.

But jobs, at least to me, seem more of an end-game thing. When you get to the end and want to take part in those big dungeons and such, you look back at the classes you've played, pick the one you enjoyed the most, and become the job that that entails, be it tanking, healing, casting, mellee or ranged. This way you give yourself a sole purpose with your character, are exceptionally good at the role that you choose, and get to enjoy more aspects of that role than you could otherwise do with a class. No one has said however that you HAVE to switch to a job to do anything, you can stay in 'class mode' and stick with the custom-built role you've made yourself.

[Adol]

Plus no one said jobs couldn't use multiple types of weaponry, Thief may be able to use knives AND swords, Paladins may be able to use sword + shield or two-handed, no specifics have been given about how jobs will operate or what they can use, so trying to pick faults on it when it isn't even readily available to find those faults with is a little presumptious.

The OP is probably trying to think too far ahead. Indeed, it's all speculation based on what we currently see with the present armory system. The developers could make it so that jobs will have access to multiple weapon types but then again, they may not and keep it as a 1class/job/1weapon kind of thing.

Personally it doesn't matter to me which way it goes but I can understand the OP's concerns. There's nothing wrong with discussing these things preemptively.

[Physic]

The OP is probably trying to think too far ahead. Indeed, it's all speculation based on what we currently see with the present armory system. The developers could make it so that jobs will have access to multiple weapon types but then again, they may not and keep it as a 1class/job/1weapon kind of thing.

Personally it doesn't matter to me which way it goes but I can understand the OP's concerns. There's nothing wrong with discussing these things preemptively.

currently they actually said this was their plan, he is hoping that they change or modify this plan, i do as well becaused while it has certain good points, i dont think its thed best execution for the game, and will make it feel a lot more limited until they can roll out some branching choices and more classes, which in their current timeline would have to be like 1.22+ at best, with likelyhood it wont be till 1.3+ since from what they said jobs arent really slated till 1.21, and will probably need a lot of feedback and adjustment from their own plan.

your basically looking at probably 9 months to a year at best

[Physic]

I'm not entirely sure what the OP is trying to get at here. From what I've heard about the job system, and as you stated yourself, jobs are 'advanced classes'. Basically, that's a class of your choosing, that you use to specify your role in combat with more defenition. At the moment it's easy to have a tank with healing skills, and healing skills create LOADS of enmity, so the tank sits on auto-attack and heals themself whenever health gets low, they tank fine, and don't need a healer, which means the other player who's levelled thaumaturge and conjurer to be healer-specific is now inherently useless except for buffing and DD. Classes are nice, but they can get confusing as there's no specifics to them in any way. With jobs, tanks will now JUST BE tanks, they'll tank well, probably better than a Gladiator or other tank class, but will need a healer to help them along, so he waves to the White Mage, thus pulling people away from soloing the entire game because they can tank + heal + DD by themselves, and slowly drawing them in to socialising and playing with other people, therefore fulfilling the purpose of the online multiplayer genre.

Plus no one said jobs couldn't use multiple types of weaponry, Thief may be able to use knives AND swords, Paladins may be able to use sword + shield or two-handed, no specifics have been given about how jobs will operate or what they can use, so trying to pick faults on it when it isn't even readily available to find those faults with is a little presumptious.

But jobs, at least to me, seem more of an end-game thing. When you get to the end and want to take part in those big dungeons and such, you look back at the classes you've played, pick the one you enjoyed the most, and become the job that that entails, be it tanking, healing, casting, mellee or ranged. This way you give yourself a sole purpose with your character, are exceptionally good at the role that you choose, and get to enjoy more aspects of that role than you could otherwise do with a class. No one has said however that you HAVE to switch to a job to do anything, you can stay in 'class mode' and stick with the custom-built role you've made yourself.

its actually closer to what he said, each job will be tied completely to a weapon. and for at least the next 6 months, probably longer, there will only be 1 job for each weapon.

this means gladiator is pld. pld is a tank, if you want to play tank you must be pld

conjurer is whm, whm is the healer, if you want to be a healer you play conjurer, and if you are a conjurer, expect to be mostly expected to be a whm in party situations

this is their current plans to this date, and are subject to change, hopefully it will evolve a lot more in the time until execution

[Konachibi]

its actually closer to what he said, each job will be tied completely to a weapon. and for at least the next 6 months, probably longer, there will only be 1 job for each weapon.

this means gladiator is pld. pld is a tank, if you want to play tank you must be pld

conjurer is whm, whm is the healer, if you want to be a healer you play conjurer, and if you are a conjurer, expect to be mostly expected to be a whm in party situations

this is their current plans to this date, and are subject to change, hopefully it will evolve a lot more in the time until execution

The only thing forcing a player to go for a job role rather than playing a custom-built class is the players they'll be playing with. Some people will demand that the tank be a Paladin, and not a custom Gladiator with a mixture of skills. Other people won't mind what the tank is, so like, a Pugilist with a few Gladiator skills is fine. The effect jobs will have in the game will be decided on the attitude of the player, rather than how the jobs operate.

If it's a WoW elitist, it'll be "I want Paladin and Thief and White Mage NOW and I won't accept any other jobs or roles!!!!", where as a more relaxed and friendly player will be like "We just need a tank, a healer and some DD, don't mind what they are, 'cos we're just gonna enjoy the game". The WoW elitist will be forcing limitation on other players, the relaxed player will be open to flexibility from other players.

So it's not the jobs that are bad, it's the odd bad-apple player that enforces them as law.

[User201109011315]

The only thing forcing a player to go for a job role rather than playing a custom-built class is the players they'll be playing with. Some people will demand that the tank be a Paladin, and not a custom Gladiator with a mixture of skills. Other people won't mind what the tank is, so like, a Pugilist with a few Gladiator skills is fine. The effect jobs will have in the game will be decided on the attitude of the player, rather than how the jobs operate.

If it's a WoW elitist, it'll be "I want Paladin and Thief and White Mage NOW and I won't accept any other jobs or roles!!!!", where as a more relaxed and friendly player will be like "We just need a tank, a healer and some DD, don't mind what they are, 'cos we're just gonna enjoy the game". The WoW elitist will be forcing limitation on other players, the relaxed player will be open to flexibility from other players.

So it's not the jobs that are bad, it's the odd bad-apple player that enforces them as law.

It's odd that you are so willing to leave everything up to the player ... except when it comes to freedom to choose and make one's own role.

I think it's odd that I am met with so much resistance when I am not suggesting they don't add a job system, all I am suggesting is that they add the job system in a way that doesnt override the work they've already done with the armory system.

[Seikninkuru]

The only thing forcing a player to go for a job role rather than playing a custom-built class is the players they'll be playing with. Some people will demand that the tank be a Paladin, and not a custom Gladiator with a mixture of skills. Other people won't mind what the tank is, so like, a Pugilist with a few Gladiator skills is fine. The effect jobs will have in the game will be decided on the attitude of the player, rather than how the jobs operate.

If it's a WoW elitist, it'll be "I want Paladin and Thief and White Mage NOW and I won't accept any other jobs or roles!!!!", where as a more relaxed and friendly player will be like "We just need a tank, a healer and some DD, don't mind what they are, 'cos we're just gonna enjoy the game". The WoW elitist will be forcing limitation on other players, the relaxed player will be open to flexibility from other players.

So it's not the jobs that are bad, it's the odd bad-apple player that enforces them as law.

No, players won't decide. SE decides when they design the battles. They pick what classes are needed for a battle and that's that. Why make me level 20, 30, 40, 50? levels of Glad to unlock PLD if PLD is just GLA as a level 51?

[Vanguard319]

The only thing forcing a player to go for a job role rather than playing a custom-built class is the players they'll be playing with. Some people will demand that the tank be a Paladin, and not a custom Gladiator with a mixture of skills. Other people won't mind what the tank is, so like, a Pugilist with a few Gladiator skills is fine. The effect jobs will have in the game will be decided on the attitude of the player, rather than how the jobs operate.

If it's a WoW elitist, it'll be "I want Paladin and Thief and White Mage NOW and I won't accept any other jobs or roles!!!!", where as a more relaxed and friendly player will be like "We just need a tank, a healer and some DD, don't mind what they are, 'cos we're just gonna enjoy the game". The WoW elitist will be forcing limitation on other players, the relaxed player will be open to flexibility from other players.

So it's not the jobs that are bad, it's the odd bad-apple player that enforces them as law.

Hopefully, the elitists will find themselves playing alone due to thier inflexible attitudes

[User201109011315]

its actually closer to what he said, each job will be tied completely to a weapon. and for at least the next 6 months, probably longer, there will only be 1 job for each weapon.

this means gladiator is pld. pld is a tank, if you want to play tank you must be pld

conjurer is whm, whm is the healer, if you want to be a healer you play conjurer, and if you are a conjurer, expect to be mostly expected to be a whm in party situations

this is their current plans to this date, and are subject to change, hopefully it will evolve a lot more in the time until execution

You always understand.

Basically you have two options to achieve diversity: either make a lot of jobs (which would take SE forever at this rate) or make an armory system (which they already have).

Purely from a cost-effectiveness standpoint, it seems like a better idea to preserve and maintain the armory system. Using jobs as "advanced classes" means that the armory system becomes a redundant intermediate to your role-selection, rather than the tool you use to build your own role.

[Alkoun]

At the moment it's easy to have a tank with healing skills, and healing skills create LOADS of enmity, so the tank sits on auto-attack and heals themself whenever health gets low, they tank fine, and don't need a healer, which means the other player who's levelled thaumaturge and conjurer to be healer-specific is now inherently useless except for buffing and DD.

A million times this. If there were ever any reason to be RID of the class system in favor of a job system, it's this. And this happens way too often on different classes. Couple this with the fact that people are gonna play how they want to play... Why play a paladin when you can have a gladiator with conjurer and thaumaturge and marauder and lancer and and archer skills? Why play a healing specific conjurer when everybody else can do your job and more just as well? Even if they implement a job system, how can they guarantee that people are gonna use it to play a PLD if they have the option of playing a super class like gladimarlancherthaumacon? I'm sorry OP, but I do not agree with you. Personally, I say get rid of classes and keep ONLY jobs. I have a feeling that won't happen but, well, a boy can dream.