The Real Problem with Parsers

[EdenLife]

There is a time-limit on instances for a reason. SE determined that it might take a group upwards of 90 minutes to finish a set of instances. "Carrying your weight" needs to be weighed against those 90 minutes, not the 15-20 minute speed-runs demanded by bored players looking to gain tomes from some daily roulette and then complaining about all those folk who are slowing them down.

In a Story Mode Instance, the expectation should be "it takes as much time as it takes".

For Extremes and Raids, go ahead an knock yourself out.

Yep, indeed there are different time checks for different contents. We have the 90 Mins limit for the average dungeon and even more for alliance-type content, as well as really tight time-check content like Savage. That's what SE seems to consider the reasonable time to clear.

[karateorangutang]

Even back in Neverwinter Nights I knew people who proudly took all the feats involving +2 to poison saving throws because 'they were role-playing a yuan-ti and it made sense for them to have it'. I don't think the mobs care one iota.

Haha, thank you for taking me back in time to remember things like this.

[CGMidlander]

There is a time-limit on instances for a reason. SE determined that it might take a group upwards of 90 minutes to finish a set of instances. "Carrying your weight" needs to be weighed against those 90 minutes, not the 15-20 minute speed-runs demanded by bored players looking to gain tomes from some daily roulette and then complaining about all those folk who are slowing them down.

In a Story Mode Instance, the expectation should be "it takes as much time as it takes".

For Extremes and Raids, go ahead an knock yourself out.

Be honest -- do you actually want your dungeon runs to take the whole 90 minutes?

20 minutes is not a speed run, btw. Many DF parties are capable of completing our current dungeons around that time going at a fairly leisurely pace. (Like, not even big pulling)

Yep, indeed there are different time checks for different contents. We have the 90 Mins limit for the average dungeon and even more for alliance-type content, as well as really tight time-check content like Savage. That's what SE seems to consider the reasonable time to clear.

Or perhaps it's also time provisioning in case someone disconnects or leaves the party and a replacement needs to be found?

[Dante_V]

Parsers are an invaluable tool for people trying to get better and teams trying to progress. The community should absolutely have access to these tools in order to expand their game play and ability.

As far as the community goes, their will always be douchers and people who just want to harass others, this is completely independent of parsers and exist regardless. The claim that this would get any worse or better isn't necessarily based in fact or objective proof and aligns more with professing correlation as casualty.

[Kabooa]

The period, end of story, isn't up for debate, cannot be argued point still stands; There are time based hard enrages that require you to complete an encounter in a set amount of time contingent on putting out enough damage. This requires a way to measure DPS output so optimal numbers can be measured and attained..

Period end of story.

[Aiselia]

Period end of story.

So you're asserting that it would be literally impossible to complete everything in the game without a parser? That it would be literally impossible for people to get good enough to beat the content without being able to see specific numbers? That a raid group all on consoles is doomed to failure, period, end of story, simply because they can't parse?

The only inarguable point is that there is content with built-in time limits. Whether or not they REQUIRE parsers is completely arguable.

As far as the community goes, their will always be douchers and people who just want to harass others, this is completely independent of parsers and exist regardless.

And if SE's position is that they don't want to risk having MORE of those people, then simply shrugging and pushing them aside and saying "Oh well, they exist anyways" isn't going to convince them they're wrong.

The claim that this would get any worse or better isn't necessarily based in fact or objective proof

Neither side of the argument is based in fact or objective proof because it's a hypothetical at this stage. The problem for you is they don't need objective proof in this game to qualify a fear that things would turn out how they have in other games.

[seraseth]

As a sometimes healer I'd be less worried about harassment from parsers, and more worried about dps ignoring mechanics and standing in aoe's because they know everyone can see their dps, and the numbers are all that matter. Either out of fear of being too low and being kicked, or so they can brag about their 'leet' numbers.

I have seen in other games 'I don't care if I gave the healer an aneurysm, I survived and the mob is dead so suck it'

Or similar statements.

[Almalexia]

As a sometimes healer I'd be less worried about harassment from parsers, and more worried about dps ignoring mechanics and standing in aoe's because they know everyone can see their dps, and the numbers are all that matter. Either out of fear of being too low and being kicked, or so they can brag about their 'leet' numbers.

I have seen in other games 'I don't care if I gave the healer an aneurysm, I survived and the mob is dead so suck it'

Or similar statements.

I do this anyway. I have Second Wind and Bloodbath, but too many healers are programmed like FFXII Gambits to cure anything under 80%.

If it's not fatal or debilitating, I will take the hit and cure myself. Medica II does the rest.

[Dante_V]

Neither side of the argument is based in fact or objective proof because it's a hypothetical at this stage. The problem for you is they don't need objective proof in this game to qualify a fear that things would turn out how they have in other games.

It's not a problem for me because I have people with parsers, and of course there's the fact that every single person can see how much damage you are doing (or not doing) using the battle log. On top of that Yoshi has stated that they will be adding a means to measure damage output in an upcoming patch. The demand for a damage meter is extremely high at this point. Giving the community tools to improve their play will only help the community in the long run. A private damage meter would be beneficial to every person who cares about improving their ability.

[Aiselia]

I have seen in other games 'I don't care if I gave the healer an aneurysm, I survived and the mob is dead so suck it'

And then when they do die, "WTF HEALER YOUR (sic) SUPPOSED TO HEAL, FAIL HEALER IS FAIL".

It's one reason why I don't heal much outside of FC groups now. I'm not going to get blamed because someone stood in the bright orange circle and got exploded.

Which is really another reason why parsers won't necessarily solve problems. If someone's eating all the AOEs they can survive just to keep their DPS up, that's putting extra strain on the healers, and yet people expect healers to DPS too. Can't do that if someone's basking in the orange glow.