Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Azurymber]

Well travel time on XI was "ok" at first, when you discover the game, enjoy the Airhsip music, discover that monsters can spawn, get killed on the Airship and raised by someone etc. But after a while ? All people were doing was AFK'ing until the ship gets there, then AFK more during travel.

That's surely immersive...

I don't see the issue with instances as well... XI had tons, never been an issue. Would you call Salvage, xNMs, Assault, Nyzul not immersive just because they were instanced? What about private (not technically instanced, still reserved) areas like Dynamis, Limbus where there was only people you know in? We all did this, no one complained that it made the game "less immersive" because instanced.

i agree with you... XI was balanced, It had both open world content, created reason for people to actually -be- in the open world, and had well implemented instanced content.

XIV is instancing too much, and making it so you dont need to travel anywhere. As a result the world is dead, and will stay dead. Theres no reason for people to run around or to go certain places unless they are a DoL. Leves are repetitive so you always go to the same spots. etc.

In FFXI when you ran through the world it was alive, there were people doing different things from leveling, to nm hunting, to chocobo digging, to gathering, to fishing, etc.

In FFXIV when you run through the world its dead, until you get to a leve. And then the part associated with that leves quest may have people. But that means that people end up using maybe 10% max of the entire world and the rest is essentially filler space.

A lot of people here obviously like that. they aren't fans of an open world and would prefer to just have everything instanced. But that isn't what FF's are known for or good at. FF's are based around story and having dynamic open worlds. Look how many people raged at FF13 being so linear (even though it was a great game). If SE wants to make FFXIV successful they need to play to their strengths and not try to create something completely out of their comfort zone that mimics the big western successes.

[Rhomagus]

i agree with you... XI was balanced, It had both open world content, created reason for people to actually -be- in the open world, and had well implemented instanced content.

XIV is instancing too much

Two instances? That's less than XI.

, and making it so you dont need to travel anywhere.You obviously don't do crafting leves. As a result the world is deadYou're blind., and will stay deadAnd seem adamant on staying blind.. Theres no reason for people to run around or to go certain places unless they are a DoLOr crafters who do leves. Or for the immersive exploration. You fight in Mistbeard Cove yet? Whose fault is it that you haven't if you haven't?. Leves are repetitive so you always go to the same spotsSo suggest that they change them accordingly instead of forcing other people to needlessly waste their time when that is not their objective.. etc.

In FFXI when you ran through the world it was aliveSo is XIV. You have blinders on. And even in XI what was it like starting in Bastok post Aht Urghan pre Wings of the Goddess. Even then the people that were in the towns for that were way too far in level to be playing with new players., there were people doing different things from levelingYou can do this in XIV., to nm huntingYou can do this in XIV., to chocobo diggingYou'll be able to do more than this in XIV, to gatheringTHERE'S A WHOLE SET OF CLASSES DEDICATED TO THIS, WHICH IS MORE THAN XI'S HALF ASSED IMPLEMENTATION., to fishingUgh..., etc.

In FFXIV when you run through the world its deadIt's only because the population has dwindled and I promise you it didn't dwindle because people weren't forced to "stop and smell the roses.", until you get to a leve. And then the part associated with that leves quest may have people. But that means that people end up using maybe 10% max of the entire world and the rest is essentially filler spaceFor you to explore. Also, the redesign should also fix this. Filler is copy pasta'd terrain not space without people, there's a huge difference..

A lot of people here obviously like that. they aren't fans of an open world and would prefer to just have everything instancedWe can not instance it and open it up for RMT manipulation and greifing if you'd prefer.. But that isn't what FF's are known for or good atHow many FF MMOs are there again? How would an instance be described... say.. in Final Fantasy VII: A place you go to where you can't be bothered by other players or the surrounding world... um aka: single player adventure/random battles, a staple Final Fantasy mechanic from I-X? C'mon.. FF's are based around story and having dynamic open worldsThis changing based on a linear story structure is less dynamic than XIV.. Look how many people raged at FF13 being so linear (even though it was a great game). If SE wants to make FFXIV successful they need to play to their strengths and not try to create something completely out of their comfort zone that mimics the big western successes.The other option is Korean grind fest or beautiful timesink. Honestly, I'll take Naoki Yoshida's design philosophy over yours anyday. Not to mention they can create a beautiful dynamic world whilst maintaining player freedom.

Your criticisms can be answered without forcing players to do anything. I suggest you look at those options first.

[Azurymber]

Your criticisms can be answered without forcing players to do anything. I suggest you look at those options first.

all your arguments are basically that there doesn't need to be any feel to the world. Its ok to be the only one on an airship. Its ok to have parts of the world dead cuz its copy and paste. People can choose to go to places and level inefficiently if they want, etc.

Click my guide thingys in my sig. I've been to -every- zone in the game, -every- node, prettty well every little corner and niche spot on every map regardless of 1-shot kill mobs being there. When i made that guide 95% of the time i was the only person in the area i was experimenting with AND saw -no one- for hours.

Im not saying take away options, im saying streamline the game to create an experience rather than rely on the players to take the initiative and create the experience themselves.

That means
1. when your levelling you should see people running by you (even if on chocobo) occasionally
2. you should have to touch leves before you can warp there, and journeys to leves should be somewhat challenging
3. there should be a sense of accomplishment when you level up, like it makes the rest of the game more accessible to you, etc.
4. you should be able to partake in activities which proactively allow players to communicate and form friendships

if you don't want a game like that and just want an instance-fest or no world why are you playing an MMO? why not just go play oblivion? The concept of an MMO is to socialize and meet people and do things together. Not "warp here, kill nm for 5 min, warp back to city, spam normal synth for 5 hours"

[Rhomagus]

all your arguments are basically that there doesn't need to be any feel to the worldAbsolutely wrong. You just want them to be that because you don't want that. I don't want that either. You want my arguments to represent that so that you can say that you want a feel to the world. My argument is that there is a feel to the world and that your concept of a "feel" will actually end up hurting player population, completely reducing any possible feel there could be. Also, all of your concepts can be done in a single player game. Airship ride cutscene, battling in a party, not having access to certain areas. These don't create any "feel". You just think they do and that's where you're stuck. You need to think beyond the concepts of a single player game. You need to understand that there are people with lives that don't want to mold their lives around the game but would rather mold the game around their lives and utilize their in game time with the people that they've met in the game rather than waiting to fulfill those mutual goals with them.. Its ok to be the only one on an airshipHave you played XI? . Its ok to have parts of the world dead cuz its copy and pasteI never said that! You are so frustrating. I said the opposite of that. I said that's why the world is dead not that it's okay. Please use critical thinking skills *while* you read.. People can choose to go to places and level inefficiently if they wantYes. I choose to level inefficiently because raptor grinds are boring as hell. I'd prefer fun or efficiency anyday. Where are you going with this? I've never even so much as indirectly suggested this. I don't even think that could be a red herring, that's a complete fabrication., etc.

Click my guide thingys in my sig. I've been to -every- zone in the game, -every- node, prettty well every little corner and niche spot on every map regardless of 1-shot kill mobs being there.So you're an immersionist. Why must you force others to do that as well. When i made that guide 95% of the time i was the only person in the area i was experimenting with AND saw -no one- for hoursSounds like my XI days, specifically on the airship. Your suggestions do not fix the problem you have. Consider other options. Stop twisting my words..

Im not saying take away optionsSo let's keep the option for people to utilize an instant airship for when they run out of anima. Awesome! Then we agree since doing otherwise would literally be taking away options., im saying streamline the game to create an experience rather than rely on the players to take the initiative and create the experience themselves.

That means
1. when your levelling you should see people running by you (even if on chocobo) occasionallyThis requires population. And chocobos are going to be implemented. The current direction of the game does not leave this out. I have not suggested the opposite.
2. you should have to touch leves before you can warp there, and journeys to leves should be somewhat challengingUnnecessary for immerison.
3. there should be a sense of accomplishment when you level up, like it makes the rest of the game more accessible to you, etc.Instances have rank and party member minimum requirements. Exploration and closing off whole areas in not necessary and hurts the amateur explorer. Would you prefer rank capped battles? I know a lot of people complained about that.
4. you should be able to partake in activities which proactively allow players to communicate and form friendshipsAlready there. Your suggestions above are not necessary in order to foster this type of atmosphere although you do need people to accomplish this goal. If you motivate people to log off of your game an never come back, that'll hurt your chances of experiencing them more than if you let them play the game how they choose.

if you don't want a game like that and just want an instance-fest or no world why are you playing an MMO?I never said I wanted an "instance-fest". I never said I didn't want "no world". We have a game already that allows people to experience it at their leisure and I get great satisfaction from all the little details and admonish my experiences knowing I made them all out of my own free choice and it wasn't spoon fed to me. You yourself have admitted that you've experienced almost all of the known world. Assuredly there will be more to open up when more content is released but my suggestions revolve around additional content while yours revolve around social engineering. why not just go play oblivion?Or I could play this game, which already has it, and will implement even more. My suggestions aren't ruining your game. On the contrary yours are ruining a larger population of potential players by forcing this into a niche market that it's already in. The concept of an MMO is to socialize and meet people and do things together.Which I do. Do I need to list my varied friends form all around the world again from several different cultural, ethnic, and social backgrounds that I met specifically in XIV? None of my FFXI friends are on my server. Not "warp hereSweet. Better than the alternative of "walk there". At least in real life I get a benefit from doing so., kill nm for 5 minGood luck on drops, warp back to citybetter than walking, spam normal synth for 5 hoursOr do leves"but I can do that too

You say you've experienced all this stuff yet, you claim that all this stuff is not in the game. You are contradicting yourself. You just want SE to implement social engineering mechanics so that people play how you want them to play.

I rarely do raptor grinds, but I like the option.
I don't grind crafts, but I like the option.
I don't always warp places, but I like the option.
I don't always fight in instances, but I like the option.

This is my stance. You say I've got a different one even one more time you are officially a liar and your opinion should not be considered as genuine. You respond one more time with a straw man and we're done with this and I'm blacklisting you. You're a brick wall.

Before you formulate a rebuttal please familiarize yourself with this website:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Your constant use of misrepresenting others is beyond frustrating and is borderline trolling.

[Azurymber]

You say you've experienced all this stuff yet, you claim that all this stuff is not in the game. You are contradicting yourself. You just want SE to implement social engineering mechanics so that people play how you want them to play.

I rarely do raptor grinds, but I like the option.
I don't grind crafts, but I like the option.
I don't always warp places, but I like the option.
I don't always fight in instances, but I like the option.

This is my stance. You say I've got a different one even one more time you are officially a liar and your opinion should not be considered as genuine. You respond one more time with a straw man and we're done with this and I'm blacklisting you. You're a brick wall.

Before you formulate a rebuttal please familiarize yourself with this website:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Your constant use of misrepresenting others is beyond frustrating and is borderline trolling.

I Don't Always Drink Beer, But When I Do, I Prefer Dos Equis

anyway your argument that touching leves before you use them doesn't help immersion is basically promoting having stuff given to you instead of accomplishing things. how is accomplishing things not immersion?

that seems to sum up your view of the game, get stuff easy without effort. and then choose to go put effort into getting other things.

Instead of an incentive model where you put effort in and get something out.

different viewpoints.

[Rhomagus]

anyway your argument that touching leves before you use them doesn't help immersion is basically promoting having stuff given to you instead of accomplishing things.

We're done.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html