DRG rant, is it really only just me? (Melee DPS balance).

[Aeliott]

DRG is so bad it made it into world first and second A4S clear along with NIN, while MNK stays on the bench...

This is all it boils down to. Before .07 DRGs were *slightly* ahead of MNK in ST DPS (apparently, I never actually saw it happen :x), afterwards they are *slightly* behind in ST DPS - but it's a difference that is absolutely dwarfed by their utility. MNK's utility is purely defensive, Mantra is a luxury skill - not a necessity, and while Dragon Kick is certainly useful, current raids not named A2S strongly favour DRK as a tank. That's...all MNK brings. And a microscopic DPS boost to Ifrit-Egi :P

Battle Litany alone makes DRGs win out in an optimal composition, having a BRD/MCH for Disembowel is the cherry on the cake. So you can take your Mog-Pitchforks away from dojos up and down Eorzea. Individual ST numbers are only half the story, and with such a minimalistic gap in those numbers anyway, it's not very hard to see why Dragoon is hardly getting a bad deal here.

In terms of AOE damage, sure, Monks are indisputably top-dog there, at least DRG got some more free damage in that department though (if you consider Geirskogul free?). All the same - while people are absolutely managing to clear savage with MNKs there is no denying that they are not part of a strictly optimal 8 man party, except A2s, whereas with Coil they were considered a staple.

[trailmix9999]

DRG is so bad it made it into world first and second A4S clear along with NIN, while MNK stays on the bench...

This pretty much says it all, DRG and NINs raid dps is higher than MNK. MNK has the most positionals by far. You act like MNK is some faceroll top dps class, to actually out dps DRG and its raid dps contribution the fight would have to be a 10 minute dummy fight. Stop being bad, DRG is currently the only necessary dps is every raid comp progressing on A3S/A4S.

[Ixsiehn]

of all the posts to agree with you guys picked the one which is the least relevant? that's like saying SMNs need a buff because they are not wanted anywhere because the world first didn't bring a single summoner.

[RapBreon]

-snip-

I find it amusing that you tell me I'm disregarding something; then disregard IR and BL.

4th-5th GCDs actually work out to be 1116 potency, with the 9th-10th GCDs working out to be 1103.5 potency (assuming I can do math, welcome to do it yourself though). I presume DoT ticks and whatever else will be brought in now.

Damage buffs will only widen that gap, though I have no idea how Life Surge affects crit damage if at all. And yes we're talking about the opener specifically, just to make sure we're clear on that.

Again, it is splitting hairs, because I have no idea why I'm contesting these points! All I said was the burst starts way earlier than GCD 9, which is demonstrably does!

Regardless, the premise of this thread isn't to discuss min-maxing (this however, I am complicit in this; so I am to blame, apologies), which we're not. We're arguing a stupidly asinine point that has no relevance to us actually performing our rotation.

The point of this thread is to tell us how...

unfair that MNKs are better at EVERYTHING else.

Let me get to the actual point of the thread in another way. DRGs are the second most valuable DPS currently (BRDs/MCHs being most valuable because mana OP). I ask you this, if MNKs do 'EVERYTHING' better, why are DRGs more valuable?

[Aeliott]

of all the posts to agree with you guys picked the one which is the least relevant? that's like saying SMNs need a buff because they are not wanted anywhere because the world first didn't bring a single summoner.

I agreed with the post, but also went on to explain why :P besides, a melee spot is going to be a lot more hotly contested in a theoretical best composition than a caster, since casters are very devoid of utility in comparison (Apocatastasis vs extra Virus/e4e....that's about it?). DRGs boost raid damage, NINs boost raid damage, MNKs boost raid healing but have the best sustained AOE damage - in a game where all of our current raid content is extremely tight on raid damage. I just really don't understand what DRGs have to complain about.

[trailmix9999]

of all the posts to agree with you guys picked the one which is the least relevant? that's like saying SMNs need a buff because they are not wanted anywhere because the world first didn't bring a single summoner.

https://twitter.com/_amochi/status/637670580699860992 You can pretty much stop at this point.

[Ixsiehn]

I find it amusing that you tell me I'm disregarding something; then disregard IR and BL.

4th-5th GCDs actually work out to be 1116 potency, with the 9th-10th GCDs working out to be 1103.5 potency (assuming I can do math, welcome to do it yourself though). I presume DoT ticks and whatever else will be brought in now.

Damage buffs will only widen that gap, though I have no idea how Life Surge affects crit damage if at all. And yes we're talking about the opener specifically, just to make sure we're clear on that.

Again, it is splitting hairs, because I have no idea why I'm contesting these points! All I said was the burst starts way earlier than GCD 9, which is demonstrably does!

Regardless, the premise of this thread isn't to discuss min-maxing (this however, I am complicit in this; so I am to blame, apologies), which we're not. We're arguing a stupidly asinine point that has no relevance to us actually performing our rotation.

The point of this thread is to tell us how...

I face palmed hard, it was indeed a hilariously stupid mistake, my bad. I concede this point.

Let me get to the actual point of the thread in another way. DRGs are the second most valuable DPS currently (BRDs/MCHs being most valuable because mana OP). I ask you this, if MNKs do 'EVERYTHING' better, why are DRGs more valuable?

Yes, thanks to discussion within this thread, I do not fully agree with my OP anymore (kind of why I started this, it's been bothering me so I wanted to make sure that it's not just me, but apparently it is).

I agreed with the post, but also went on to explain why :P besides, a melee spot is going to be a lot more hotly contested in a theoretical best composition than a caster, since casters are very devoid of utility in comparison (Apocatastasis vs extra Virus/e4e....that's about it?). DRGs boost raid damage, NINs boost raid damage, MNKs boost raid healing but have the best sustained AOE damage - in a game where all of our current raid content is extremely tight on raid damage. I just really don't understand what DRGs have to complain about.

fair enough, although I'd say summoners have brez too, something that can potentially save a wipe.

https://twitter.com/_amochi/status/637670580699860992 You can pretty much stop at this point.

You're missing the point. The raid composition of the world first, despite being an indicator of what classes are successful, is not an indicator of whether there is an issue. Especially since the Issue I originally had happened when all progression groups were already way past the point to suddenly switch mains mid-progression.

[Silverawz]

Drg is the best melee in the game atm. Every first/second A3S/A4S was DRG/NIN composition. There is nothing more to say.... they bring the best dps party that's all. Even with the 3% buff, MNK stay behind.

[RapBreon]

Yes, thanks to discussion within this thread, I do not fully agree with my OP anymore (kind of why I started this, it's been bothering me so I wanted to make sure that it's not just me, but apparently it is).

Fair enough. I learnt that my FT+CK combo wasn't as weak as I initially thought!

Things may change in the future. All it would take is to make MNKs bring piercing resist and they'd be probably best-in-show again.

[Ilyanat]

Drg is the best melee in the game atm. Every first/second A3S/A4S was DRG/NIN composition. There is nothing more to say.... they bring the best dps party that's all. Even with the 3% buff, MNK stay behind.

To be fair, Monk is now ahead in terms of overall dps, the only reason someone would pick a dragoon instead is because of utility reasons.