NIN's It's time to stand up

[Aomine1992]

You are wrong in both points. Mudra lag is an issue with your internet, not SE..

Mudras lag isn't just that persons Internet it's a lot of our issues not one but many with great internet there is still a latency in mudra combinations but meh I still think nin is pretty fine besides the mudra crap....but by the way I have awesome fast internet and this is the only problem I have with any MMO is that mudra latency >_<

[Minorinz]

I can't believe I'm saying this but ninjas' need a mini buff here, either utility on the 50-60 or tp consumption..
It feels like ninja is somewhat the bard version for melees, lotsa utility with a little less on dps vs other melee, although to be fair, drg has 10% piercing + litany and are still pretty high on damage vs a ninja. Trick attack is awesome for every minute + goad + 10% slashing but this silhouette and smoke screen are kind of situational here, especially when tanks decide to start going on their dps stance or healers having enmity issues..

[MrCookTM]

Mudras lag isn't just that persons Internet it's a lot of our issues not one but many with great internet there is still a latency in mudra combinations but meh I still think nin is pretty fine besides the mudra crap....but by the way I have awesome fast internet and this is the only problem I have with any MMO is that mudra latency >_<

There are people even in the EU with a consistent sub 50ms ping, with tunneling services of course. Having fast internet is one thing, mudra's are all about latency though, and the providers isp is the biggest hurdle here, no matter the bandwith. I agree though that Nin is by far the most affect job by this.

[Craiger]

TP issues is the only realistic buff/change NIN should have at the moment.

Mudra lag can be a pain, but it's pretty hard for them to fix it... and with them working on hard on the expansion up til now, I would at least give them some more time on coming up with something.

As for DPS, if they just buff NINs DPS now, MNK would be under-powered again, because NIN already brings similar DPS to MNK overall (with trick attack).

DRG is still top DPS though, and I've never really heard anyone discuss having a MNK-NIN composition or something... it's always DRG + NIN/MNK. So, both NIN and MNK could use a tiny amount of buff in DPS, but since DRG doesn't bring anything but DPS + DPS increasing utility, things could get a little difficult. They could easily make DRG the job nobody wants to bring again.

For now, I think they should just keep everything like it is, and maybe just take a look at NINs TP problems.

There are people even in the EU with a consistent sub 50ms ping, with tunneling services of course. Having fast internet is one thing, mudra's are all about latency though, and the providers isp is the biggest hurdle here, no matter the bandwith. I agree though that Nin is by far the most affect job by this.

I doubt anyone from EU can get below 50ms... Down to 70 maybe, but not sub 50.

Anyways... While I don't main NIN, I have played on it quite a bit, and even with 110-120 ping, I don't get the problems a lot of players say they get.

I use a tunneling software, and without it, there are lots of problems. So, while it's a problem that it depends so much on your connection, there isn't anything wrong with their servers or anything... It's the connection we have that determines it.

They have to come up with something that eliminates that need for a connection like that though.

[Juen]

1. NIN brings more ultility now than MNK by a LONGGG stretch is because MNKs are no longer the only class to lower int since DRK can also preform it.

2. MNK didnt get any new ultility for the raiding after their DK got gimped by DRKs.

3. This was from a TERRIBLE design by SE making MCH piercing dmg instead of blunt. Every class can benefit from each other (DRK = MCH/BRD, NIN/WAR = Tanks/NIN, BRD/MCH = Magical dmg) but MNK only benefit themselves for the dps.

[Craiger]

1. NIN brings more ultility now than MNK by a LONGGG stretch is because MNKs are no longer the only class to lower int since DRK can also preform it.

2. MNK didnt get any new ultility for the raiding after their DK got gimped by DRKs.

3. This was from a TERRIBLE design by SE making MCH piercing dmg instead of blunt. Every class can benefit from each other (DRK = MCH/BRD, NIN/WAR = Tanks/NIN, BRD/MCH = Magical dmg) but MNK only benefit themselves for the dps.

I agree with that you're saying overall, but making MCH have blunt damage? There's no logic in that...

A lot of others have said the same thing, but how can a gun's bullet cause blunt damage? Only bullet I know of that could cause blunt damage, would be one from Mario...

It doesn't matter what shape a bullet have, cause even a round one won't cause blunt damage. It's so small and travels at such a high velocity, that it just pierces right through your enemies. It would be more logical to add something else.

[Velhart]

You are wrong in both points. Mudra lag is an issue with your internet, not SE.

This is something SE should not of done to begin with. They did little to no testing on how effective it is to use the ability in a position where someone may have higher latency. The highest latency I get while in the game is 30-35 and still needed to use a VPN server just to use mudras effectively. SE has not done anything with it because they themselves likely do not know how to fix it without completely tearing it down and putting a different way of using it in.

Ninja is an effective job to those that live right next to the server or willing to pay $10+ a month for a VPN.

[MrCookTM]

This is something SE should not of done to begin with. They did little to no testing on how effective it is to use the ability in a position where someone may have higher latency. The highest latency I get while in the game is 30-35 and still needed to use a VPN server just to use mudras effectively. SE has not done anything with it because they themselves likely do not know how to fix it without completely tearing it down and putting a different way of using it in.

Ninja is an effective job to those that live right next to the server or willing to pay $10+ a month for a VPN.

I don't know about that. I can clearly see your point, and as I admitted a few posts back, Nin is definitely the job that's affected the most by latency issues. On the other hand, japanese internet is godlike and a huge part of the playerbase is from japan/asia. I'm not sure if it would've been a good descision to implement a job mechanic around bad pings, imo that's not the way to go from the developemental standpoint...

On another note... what kind of issues are you encountering with a 35ms ping? You should be perfectly fine.

[Velhart]

snip

Delays or spikes still occur. VPN's helps cut down the frequency. It isn't simply just latency itself making mudras sluggish.

SE needs to remember that FFXIV is a worldwide game and not one in just Japan. They need to create a job or content in the mind that it works worldwide and not in their office. I pretty much quit NIN before 3.0 because mudras are so terribly designed and not paying an extra 10 dollars on top of internet service I pay a lot for so I don't have to worry about things like VPN.

They acknowledged mudra I believe -once- almost a year ago and have kept hush since. It is convenient they can pick their questions out during live letters because I am sure the issue of mudra is brought along a few times per session.

[Jonnycbad]

Question: MNK and DRG do higher DPS than NIN in theory, but is it the case that the damage NIN boost's the raid by (Goad/Trick Attack), would make up for their lower DPS? I would think MNK and DRG had the highest individual damage, with some raid utility, but NIN's raid utility would make up the gap by increasing the party's damage noticeably. If they made NIN on par with MNK and DRG individually, then when you account for Goad/Trick Attack, wouldn't they be ahead of every other DPS??

Trick Attack is +10% raid-wide damage for 17%(10s/60s) of the time.
Battle Litany is +15% raid-wide crit rate for 11% of the time (20s/180s).

TA's effect is guaranteed, not RNG, whereas DRG's is RNG so the average to total damage boost from Litany is probably much lower than TA. That being said, since NIN boost every other player's DPS substantially every minute, wouldn't that added DPS technically (from SE's point of view) belong to NIN's presence, and thus not necessitate a buff? They probably balanced NIN DRG MNK such that their individual damage+raid boost potential is about the same, just that the ratio of Individual vs Raid boost varies between the 3 melee.