Another Red Mage Tank Idea

[Mimilu]

RDM does not use "shield" RDM has been protrayed as mainly a magical fencer, fencers use one handed rapiers, No shield. It's like giving a sword to a blm.

I thought giving RDM shield spells would allude to their nature as enchanters in various FF games, having access to both black and white magic.
RDM have three parts, melee, black magic, and white magic.
The shields and self-buffs represent white magic, the damaging spells are black magic, and the weapon skills are melee.

No..WE have 2 ranged casters, Which are Black mage and Summoner, BRD, MCH, are ranged PHYSICAL DPS. (which are also 2 by themsevles) There is a difference.

So we have 2 ranged casters 2 ranged DPS, 3 Tanks, 3 Healers, and 3 Melee DPS, to even that out, they would have to add another CASTER DPS or even ranged, But obviously since RDM is a magic based job, it will follow the caster family. it would make no sense to bring out a 4th tank job. that has no business tanking (due to how the job has been viewed and nothing they use supports tanking) You see now? It simply just makes little sense to do this.

Except both BRD and MCH get stances that up their DPS in exchange for cast times, i.e. like a caster. Just ask any veteran BRD, hitting level 52 changes the job completely, for better or worse.
And saying that RDM would go in a caster role is contradicting what you just said in your first point: RDM are magical fencers. It would make less sense to deny them all three parts of their repertoire: Melee, Black Magic, and White Magic.
Also the idea that RDM = Tank making little sense is purely your opinion.

Get in line with Nektulos-Tuor who also did the same thing, But he ended up just shooting down anyones opinion who didn't agree with him. and comeplty ignored what i just said to you about 4th tanking making no sense as well as a class that it makes no sense on. Nothing wrong with discussing it again, like so many people are doing, in another topic.. but much like Nektulos's idea, it won't work. Especially the way you want to work (evasion)

Like I said previously, when I meant Avoidance Tank, I mean they mainly use shield spells to avoid damage, with as much evasion and parrying support as any other tank would get.
And are you really one to talk about "shooting down anyone's opinion who doesn't agree with them and completely ignoring what was just said to them "?
Saying that making a 4th Tank makes no sense is just, for lack of a better word, stupid. They only have three roles in this game, why would they stop adding jobs to one of them? Especially when one role (DPS) has 7 jobs already, compared to Tank and Healer's 3?

[Blood-Aki]

I thought giving RDM shield spells would allude to their nature as enchanters in various FF games, having access to both black and white magic.
RDM have three parts, melee, black magic, and white magic.
The shields and self-buffs represent white magic, the damaging spells are black magic, and the weapon skills are melee.

Except both BRD and MCH get stances that up their DPS in exchange for cast times, i.e. like a caster. Just ask any veteran BRD, hitting level 52 changes the job completely, for better or worse.

That dosn't magcialy make them "casters" surely you are not so foolish as to realize this.. Scathe on blm is instant, doesn't mean its a "physcial" caster all of sudden.

So no, regardless of how much you deny it, they are not, anything of the sort near "casters" unless you cannot tell the difference between magic, arrows, and bullets.

And saying that RDM would go in a caster role is contradicting what you just said in your first point: RDM are magical fencers. It would make less sense to deny them all three parts of their repertoire: Melee, Black Magic, and White Magic.

"Melee, black magic and white magic" None of those are related to tanking. for a magic based job, Not sure what this was about. you actually proved my point further, of why they won't work as a tank.

Also the idea that RDM = Tank making little sense is purely your opinion.

As much as an opinion as saying DRK would work as a back line caster. Sometimes opinions dig into common sense.

Like I said previously, when I meant Avoidance Tank, I mean they mainly use shield spells to avoid damage, with as much evasion and parrying support as any other tank would get.

Avoid means stay clear of, getting away from damage. AKA evading, Shields don't make you 'get away" from damage, they reduce the incoming damage or BLOCK it entirely. That isn't "avoiding" so your own wording was your undoing.

And are you really one to talk about "shooting down anyone's opinion who doesn't agree with them and completely ignoring what was just said to them "?
Saying that making a 4th Tank makes no sense is just, for lack of a better word, stupid.

DO you know what "stupid" even means? lack of the word is certainly correct in this situation, as if you have been paying attention to how they have been relasing the jobs you would understand why adding a 4th tank so close to the last one is it self, stupid.

They only have three roles in this game, why would they stop adding jobs to one of them? Especially when one role (DPS) has 7 jobs already, compared to Tank and Healer's 3?

Never said they would "stop adding jobs" but as i said above if they FOLLOW THE PATTERN they are going, we won't be getting a tank/healer next jobs, it will be DPS. depending on how long these 2 take. and since they hinted at sam and rdm being next, 1 or both will most likely BE DPS. the other is up for debate, (fearing SAM being tank)

[Mimilu]

That dosn't magcialy make them "casters" surely you are not so foolish as to realize this.. Scathe on blm is instant, doesn't mean its a "physcial" caster all of sudden.

So no, regardless of how much you deny it, they are not, anything of the sort near "casters" unless you cannot tell the difference between magic, arrows, and bullets

The majority of their damaging skills now have cast times that require them to stand still in order for them to work. How is that not a caster? Physical vs Magical is purely aesthetic.

"Melee, black magic and white magic" None of those are related to tanking. for a magic based job, Not sure what this was about. you actually proved my point further, of why they won't work as a tank.

I'm proving at least that my design at covers these points. And saying that this proves your point is a fallacy, as it does nothing to help your claim.
Paladins, for example, have always used White Magic and Melee through out the FF series. But oh, gee, the can't be tanks because clearly neither of those things relate to tanking. At least according to your logic.

As much as an opinion as saying DRK would work as a back line caster. Sometimes opinions dig into common sense.

Resorting to hyperbole proves nothing.

Avoid means stay clear of, getting away from damage. AKA evading, Shields don't make you 'get away" from damage, they reduce the incoming damage or BLOCK it entirely. That isn't "avoiding" so your own wording was your undoing.

Undoing? Sweetheart, the argument isn't about Avoidance Tank vs Mitigation Tank, it's about RDM's being a Tank, which you still haven't presented any concrete evidence against other then DPS!RDM is some sort of sacred cow to you...
So, I apologize for getting your little gaming terminology wrong.

DO you know what "stupid" even means? lack of the word is certainly correct in this situation, as if you have been paying attention to how they have been relasing the jobs you would understand why adding a 4th tank so close to the last one is it self, stupid.)

First off, it is perfectly clear that I didn't not call you stupid, I called the idea that "adding a 4th Tank is none-sense" stupid. Your name calling is uncalled for and uncivilized.
Second, Stupid: lacking intelligence and/or common sense.

Never said they would "stop adding jobs" but as i said above if they FOLLOW THE PATTERN they are going, we won't be getting a tank/healer next jobs, it will be DPS. depending on how long these 2 take. and since they hinted at sam and rdm being next, 1 or both will most likely BE DPS. the other is up for debate, (fearing SAM being tank)

You do realize that in the live letters they said that they wouldn't be adding any more jobs/classes until 4.0 (a.k.a the next expansion). So following that pattern, we got three jobs in this expansion, one tank, one DPS, one healer, we're probably going to get the same in the next, one tank, one DPS, one healer.

[Blood-Aki]

The majority of their damaging skills now have cast times that require them to stand still in order for them to work. How is that not a caster? Physical vs Magical is purely aesthetic.

So in other words. you don't understand the difference between magical spells, bullets and arrows... well. i cannot help you there. seems like a huge personal issue. But, still, no, they are not casters.. i'm sorry. Hell by this logic PLD is also a caster.

First off, it is perfectly clear that I didn't not call you stupid, I called the idea that "adding a 4th Tank is none-sense" stupid. Your name calling is uncalled for and uncivilized.
Second, Stupid: lacking intelligence and/or common sense.

I am actually starting to think you simply do not read well, cause i didn't call you stupid, either. like yours, my wording was the very idea of it. please read more carefully. for your sake..

You do realize that in the live letters they said that they wouldn't be adding any more jobs/classes until 4.0 (a.k.a the next expansion). So following that pattern, we got three jobs in this expansion, one tank, one DPS, one healer, we're probably going to get the same in the next, one tank, one DPS, one healer.

SO.. is SAM going to be the healer then? if not, then RDM would be the healer.. and SAM the DPS or tank..that would leave one brand new job. which would take one of the 3 roles.. and since there is a very high chance, as i said rdm will be a caster dps. then the only other logical one they can do is healer. Sam or the new job would be the tank. You see what went wrong there i hope..

Those were the only parts worth responding to, honestly, this is just getting silly, and i don't expect any less out of these forums, You can entertain the idea all you like, Just don't be surprised when the job comes out and it won't be anything like you hoped.

[Mimilu]

[QUOTE=Blood-Aki;3285849]So in other words. you don't understand the difference between magical spells, bullets and arrows... well. i cannot help you there. seems like a huge personal issue. But, still, no, they are not casters.. i'm sorry. Hell by this logic PLD is also a caster.QUOTE]

PLD has one spell with a cast time, Clemency.
BRD has 7 weapon skills with a cast time, Heavy Shot, Straight Shot, Venomous Bite, Quick Nook, Windbite, and Wide Volley, all of which are BRD DPSing meat and potatoes that aren't locked behind cooldowns, and Empyreal Arrow, which is pretty much a supped up version of Bloodletting that can only be used under Wanderer's Minuet.
It's your Magic = Caster logic that makes PLD and DRK casters, seeing as both use magic and that's the only trait you've used to define casters at this point.

I am actually starting to think you simply do not read well, cause i didn't call you stupid, either. like yours, my wording was the very idea of it. please read more carefully. for your sake.

Your post:
"...so close to the last one is it self, stupid.)"

You used a comma, which makes it look like you called me stupid.
Please learn to type better.

SO.. is SAM going to be the healer then? if not, then RDM would be the healer.. and SAM the DPS or tank..that would leave one brand new job. which would take one of the 3 roles.. and since there is a very high chance, as i said rdm will be a caster dps. then the only other logical one they can do is healer. Sam or the new job would be the tank. You see what went wrong there i hope.

Whoever said they had to add SAM and RDM?
Or that they had to add them at the same time?
Who's to say that SE is going to actually add them at all?
This is SE's game, they can teasingly add red-herrings for obsessive fans to find and make theories.
They don't have to be held by the fans' obsessions.

Those were the only parts worth responding to, honestly, this is just getting silly, and i don't expect any less out of these forums, You can entertain the idea all you like, Just don't be surprised when the job comes out and it won't be anything like you hoped.

Oh yes, you are the victim, telling people that their ideas "make no sense" because they don't match yours...
And who ever said I expect them to make RDM like I designed it?
I'm well aware that they will probably do the easy route of making RDM and DPS or Healer IF the ever add it.
I do this for the enjoyment of designing something and getting constructive criticism, which is obvious that I'm not going to get any here.

[Blood-Aki]

PLD has one spell with a cast time, Clemency.
BRD has 7 weapon skills with a cast time, Heavy Shot, Straight Shot, Venomous Bite, Quick Nook, Windbite, and Wide Volley, all of which are BRD DPSing meat and potatoes that aren't locked behind cooldowns, and Empyreal Arrow, which is pretty much a supped up version of Bloodletting that can only be used under Wanderer's Minuet.
It's your Magic = Caster logic that makes PLD and DRK casters, seeing as both use magic and that's the only trait you've used to define casters at this point.

Went ahead and bolded the important part for you, If you still cannot understand why none of them getting "cast times" does not make them then a "caster" job, then you are far beyond any hope. i simply just think you're in denial at this point.

Your post:
"...so close to the last one is it self, stupid.)"

You used a comma, which makes it look like you called me stupid.
Please learn to type better.

That it self was a clear indication of what i was talking about, with the comma, Please learn reading comprehension.

The rest is simply trying to hard, But seriously. Stop doing this to your self.

[Mimilu]

Went ahead and bolded the important part for you, If you still cannot understand why none of them getting "cast times" does not make them then a "caster" job, then you are far beyond any hope. i simply just think you're in denial at this point.

You can bold whatever you like, if you can't understand why doing physical or magical damage is purely aesthetic and that these two jobs now function as caster jobs, then there is no hope for you.
Also, I love that you upped your typing game after I pointed it out. You really do care. <3

[ChazNatlo]

Went ahead and bolded the important part for you, If you still cannot understand why none of them getting "cast times" does not make them then a "caster" job, then you are far beyond any hope. i simply just think you're in denial at this point.

No, Seriously, You're addressing the wrong point. You are steadfastly arguing that the fact that BLM and SMN do magic damage, while BRD and MCH do physical makes them different, You're ignoring that this all leads back to your point that this means that There are two Phys Ranged DPS and Two Magic Ranged DPS, and therefore need to be one more of each to match the Tank's Three representatives, It ignores that this idea would similarly split the Tanks into Magic focused and Physical focused. You can't have that argument both ways. Either there are four Ranged DPS and another Tank wouldn't upset that balance, or there are one to zero Magic tanks and another magic based tank is needed to fill that void.

The representation of a physical based healing class being beyond mention at this juncture.