Bard - they broke my job

[Warlyx]

Yes but at least by 60 MCHs have their full toolkit that revolves around speeding up or even removing the cast timers that GB forces on them. Bards don't get this luxury...EVER. Hence why Bard is clunky and unfun. The class was not build with WM in mind. It was tacked on so it would be just the same as mch so that people wouldn't have to choose between playing a ranged dps with casttimers or playing one without. In truth, they clearly didn't trust that people would play mch unless they tacked cast timers on to bard as well.

QFT

btw its me or this week i get random interrupts more than ever , wondering wth is going on , that im casting w/o moving and got interrupted :S , usually happens on pulls where i need to gather with others move to the spot and then get interrupted after being there and started casting.... , sometimes work perfect others ughhhhhhh so frustrating.....

[Katchoo]

. There is also the matter that the ability is called Minuet, so if SE had to change it they would either have to keep within the theme of a "slow dance" or completely overhaul the ability.

Or they could just rename it. I HIGHLY doubt that when they create a skill they base the effects around the name and not the other way around :P (BTW i agree with everything else you said i'm just being pedantic )

[xyaie]

I typed out this whole thing to respond to what you put in here but I decided you would probably argue it tooth and nail so I deleted it. Let me just simply say that the Bard toolkit and the BLM toolkit are not similar. They don't even play similarly enough to give merit to all the comparisons. A lot of Bards are unhappy with the new play style. Understandable. Please stop saying you guys are BLM's. You're not.

I read this, still typed a response to gaignen, then deleted it. nothing good can come from it.

[RiceisNice]

Yes but at least by 60 MCHs have their full toolkit that revolves around speeding up or even removing the cast timers that GB forces on them. Bards don't get this luxury...EVER. Hence why Bard is clunky and unfun. The class was not build with WM in mind. It was tacked on so it would be just the same as mch so that people wouldn't have to choose between playing a ranged dps with casttimers or playing one without. In truth, they clearly didn't trust that people would play mch unless they tacked cast timers on to bard as well.

It's not so much the cast time removal for me. I'm fine with that. It's that on MCH, I can properly play with reactive procs. If I ever overshoot a slug shot proc with anotehr split shot, I can be assured in saying that it's completely my fault because I didn't catch it in time.

I can't say that when it comes to bard with straighter shot, because the proc itself doesn't even show up or register as a buff until a split second after your weapon skill ends. If you tried to do SS after heavy shot and it gave a proc, you'd still end up hard casting SS without the 100% crit. Then you have bloodletter resets that needs to be used up or it's wasted dps if you overlap the resets (esp if you're multidotting, which is very well possible in nearly all of the alexander encounters)

[yamochan]

snip

yeah the cast times are ok on MCH cause he can deal with them in many ways. for BRD not so much since the whole class functions different. it wasnt build for cast times and it never will be unless SE changes quite some stuff. i would not mind them as well if they would just function alright.

[Aiselia]

Or they could just rename it.

Or they could leave it as it is since it's already inaccurate. It's called Wanderer's when it is the only song to prevent us from wandering, and a minuet is a dance for two people and it's the only song that only has an effect on the bard alone.

Also of note, using the wording from Wikipedia, "The name is also given to a musical composition written in the same time and rhythm, though when not accompanying an actual dance the pace was quicker." Since the animation only shows a song being played and not a dance, the pace could be quicker.

So I guess technically the effect should be that if we're standing still (no dance), we should be attacking faster than when moving (dance). Or it should also affect one other person somehow, like maybe it works kind of like Cover in that if you link to another person, you and that person get X% increased damage, but if you move too far from each other, the effect fades, whether you just lose the damage bonus or you lose the song.

There's some more tactical gameplay hidden in the latter, though, whether it's better to pop it on a melee but be stuck in melee range for extra damage or pop it on a ranged to be out of melee range but increase the odds of an AOE circle coming near them. Or if you need heavy AOE, don't put it on someone who's mainly single target, run over to the SMN. Or heck, if that tank needs some extra threat in a pinch, toss it on the tank and they're doing more damage for more threat. The possibilities are endless! Except for where they end!

Or if they really want to cement BRD as support, how about a different effect depending on who you're dancing with? Say, tanks take less damage if you link with them, DPS do more damage, and healers do more healing, with a DPS boost to you for linking with them. Say, 30% if they're a melee but you can only shoot in melee range and maybe 20% if you're linked with ranged/healer so you get more benefit for being in the "riskier" position of melee.

[Gaignen]

snip

slightly smaller snip

I never said BRD is BLM. My issue is we went from more mobile than them in a reactive sense to less mobile than BLM or SMN in reaction. It's common sense: 20% chance of a free move (Straighter Shot), or 40%+5% (Firestarter + Thundercloud) plus one guaranteed free move on demand per minute (Swiftcast). I'm not directly comparing the playstyles of the two jobs, I understand that BLM has leylines to worry about, and a much more sensitive rotation. But movement is not about the rotation, it is something everyone has to deal with, so comparing movement options for ranged jobs is not moot, the mobility-in-reaction-to-something-happening options are better on other casters (and of course MCH) than on BRD, fact.

All other jobs got to be more what they were before. BRD stayed MP/TP batteries and lost their move-king status.

[xyaie]

I never said BRD is BLM. My issue is we went from more mobile than them in a reactive sense to less mobile than BLM or SMN in reaction. It's common sense: 20% chance of a free move (Straighter Shot), or 40%+5% (Firestarter + Thundercloud) plus one guaranteed free move on demand per minute (Swiftcast). I'm not directly comparing the playstyles of the two jobs, I understand that BLM has leylines to worry about, and a much more sensitive rotation. But movement is not about the rotation, it is something everyone has to deal with, so comparing movement options for ranged jobs is not moot, the mobility-in-reaction-to-something-happening options are better on other casters (and of course MCH) than on BRD, fact.

All other jobs got to be more what they were before. BRD stayed MP/TP batteries and lost their move-king status.

Its difficult to compare their ability to do emergency movement to ours to begin with. If they are rooted 100% of the time and we are rooted 60% of the time, ANY movement is emergency movement for them, while for us 95% of movements in the game are not, combine that with the fact that in our normal rotation we arent even rooted 60% of the time and i wonder what the whole debate is even about?

It is common sense that 20% < 40%. cool, but thats very similar to the above, in a vaccume yes that is better. Not lets add in the fact that we refresh our DoTs every 18s (lets pretend no skill speed and say 17.5s), straight shot every 20s, so 1/7 globals on iron jaws, 1/8 globals on straight(er) shot, so 72% of our globals have a 20% chance of proccing a movement, that is 14.5% (its early, correct me if my math is wrong)

a black mage rotation is roughly (after the opener): F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 B3 B4 T F3
So 11% of their rotation has a 40% chance to proc movement leaving them with a 4% chance. every 3s has a 10% chance to proc thundercloud, which is roughly 1 proc every 30s = roughly 1/12 globals = 8.3%. there is a higher chance we will have a straighter shot proc than BOTH their firestarter and thunder cloud. now, we also cant simply forget about the fact that using a fire starter proc during 44% of their rotation would be devastating.

now, for whatever reason the bard has to move for a full global, as does the black mage, so ignoring the fact that we have over a second to move between every global (as you can move before the casting bar finishes and it will still cast) giving us enough time to dodge most mechanics, and ignoring the fact that we have a higher chance of "proccing" movement (swfit cast will push them over us in movement globals per minute if youre willing to completely break your rotation and use them on cooldown), as well as ignoring our ability to turn off WM without losing much DPS as long as we dont have to iron jaws.. So simply everything else is on CD/not procced and you HAVE to move for a global.

We can feint. there is a 72% chance it is replacing a heavy shot. that is 202 potency (counting WM and our traits) as opposed to 253, so a 51 potency loss. that sucks

for a black mage there is a 44% chance of it replacing a fire 4, if it replaces the fire 1 you lose your stacks and are screwed, if you have to replace your bliz 3 and it pushes you below the mana for bliz 3 youre basically screwed, if it replaces the bliz 4 you MAY lose enochian, in which case you'd be screwed. the rest wouldnt be as bad and would just be pushed back.
but 44% chance to lose a (modifiers considered) 740 potency nuke and replace it with a 168 (counting the 20% chance for it to do double damage). a loss of 572 potency. if a black mage does that ONCE then its worse than you having to feint 11 times during the fight. why on earth are we comparing the emergency movement ability of these 2?

in ANY situation, bard is still high on the list of mobility. we dont -need- the emergency movement buttons. WM was a big issue when it had a 3s casting time, but without that i dont find myself to be rooted much at all.

I linked this yet? it may have been this thread that i found it in originally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsBX...el=TakakazuAbe

[Duelle]

Because a lot of people just stopped playing BRD after the changes :c

Was painful to see someone I know throw away their bard gear after finally getting fed up with what they did to the job. =/

[Ephier]

All other jobs got to be more what they were before. BRD stayed MP/TP batteries and lost their move-king status.

And they also gained quite a bit of damage as well for the loss of their "move-king" status.