What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Eudyptes]

However, the point I was making was referencing the loss of identity, not simply the loss in potency.

But as I and many others have already stated countless times, whm still has it's identity. It's still the pure healer of the game, with the strongest raid healing output and best healing toolkit. Nothing changed that. I don't know how many times this needs to be stated.

The problem is that people have spent more time attacking the person than anything else. Probably half the pages in this thread are nothing more than "oh yeah well you don't have whm leveled." That doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Even when someone is completely uninformed you can still have a proper discussion and explain why their wrong. For some reason all the job boards just love to tell people their uninformed and walk away.

Actually, many people have explained a lot. Including myself. However, the reason I (and possibly the others) started to go into "attack mode" is because these complaints started as uneducated opinions based on feelings. There was very little fact to being with, and most of the facts they did use have been distorted as to cause fear mongering. So it's kinda hard to counter them beyond listing whm's toolkit and and explaining why it's better. Which was done multiple times in this thread alone.

This isn't isolated to this thread either. So I imagine that many others like myself are just tired of repeating the same thing over and over to people being willfully ignorant.

[Yorumi]

This isn't isolated to this thread either. So I imagine that many others like myself are just tired of repeating the same thing over and over to people being willfully ignorant.

The problem is it actually perpetuates the problem doing this. I read this thread and I see the vast majority of people just attacking each other, many that attempt the give facts usually quickly turn to attacks and when they don't it's often then pointing to a minor difference in two or three skills and I ask "if it's so objectively better why all the insults?" The moment people cross that line they lose credibility. If a person looks at someone making a wrong, but valid argument in a level headed way, and someone saying something truthful in an insulting way, the second person is far less likely to be believed. There's just never a good reason to ever go into the kind of attacks you see regularly on these boards. It's not going to make people stop, it doesn't lend credibility to anyone it just makes everything worse. If you believe someone truly isn't listening then the solution isn't to attack them.

How does anyone get useful information when most of the thread looks like a bunch of kids on the playground going "nuh uh, yeah huh, huh uh"?

[Eudyptes]

The problem is it actually perpetuates the problem doing this.

The facts were laid out and never countered. People just came in and repeated the same stuff OP said w/o adding anything new or challenging the counterarguments...or w/o reading what was already stated by the sound of it. There's only so much of that any reasonable non-PR professional can take without just thinking "this is really dumb".

[Kosmos992k]

But as I and many others have already stated countless times, whm still has it's identity. It's still the pure healer of the game, with the strongest raid healing output and best healing toolkit. Nothing changed that. I don't know how many times this needs to be stated.

I don't know how many times. But since you've completely avoided the fact that I wasn't talking about end-game, I guess it will be at least once more.

How a job plays out in end-game, what it's numbers are, may be of great interest to you and raiders/end-gamers in general, but it's not to me. What is interesting to me is how the role looks and feels during mainstream story content, NOT end-game content.

[Eudyptes]

I don't know how many times. But since you've completely avoided the fact that I wasn't talking about end-game, I guess it will be at least once more.

How a job plays out in end-game, what it's numbers are, may be of great interest to you and raiders/end-gamers in general, but it's not to me. What is interesting to me is how the role looks and feels during mainstream story content, NOT end-game content.

My statement wasn't exclusive to raids. By "raid healing" I am referring to AE healing/getting multiple people healed up quickly. The other points I made didn't even have anything to do with endgame at all. So I didn't "avoid" anything. That's their identity. If you don't like that identity, level another class. It's really as simple as that. Whm is the same it was in ARR as it is now, save the loss to protect (which was a must change anyway), and stoneskin (which I personally don't think was necessary to change). So if you liked it then, there is no reason to not like it now. If you don't like it now, then it's not the class for you.

I played whm a lot in ARR and prefered it's playstyle over sch's by a lot. It's role in groups and its identity in general are exactly the same now as it was then, save two minor changes and 5 new tools to help do what we did before even better.

[GideonHighmourn]

My statement wasn't exclusive to raids. By "raid healing" I am referring to AE healing/getting multiple people healed up quickly. The other points I made didn't even have anything to do with endgame at all. So I didn't "avoid" anything. That's their identity. If you don't like that identity, level another class. It's really as simple as that. Whm is the same it was in ARR as it is now, save the loss to protect (which was a must change anyway), and stoneskin (which I personally don't think was necessary to change). So if you liked it then, there is no reason to not like it now. If you don't like it now, then it's not the class for you.

I played whm a lot in ARR and prefered it's playstyle over sch's by a lot. It's role in groups and its identity in general are exactly the same now as it was then, save two minor changes and 5 new tools to help do what we did before even better.

To go further into this .. I'd also say that WHM is the most "simple" (and I don't mean easy, just less complicated, mainly) healer compared to SCH/AST. A lot of people seem to enjoy that aspect, since there's not an extra resource, pet, or cards to manage. It's still the king of burst healing, which is what it was in ARR; nothing about WHM's identity has changed with the addition of AST or SCH's new skills. If you like the new toys that AST/SCH got, play them instead; nothing is stopping you. None of the healing classes are "better" but each fill a slightly different role with slightly different play styles, which is completely fine.

[SenzorialBoundries]

two minor changes and 5 new tools to help do what we did before even better.

Actually no heavensward changed the identity of sch and whm quite a bit, pre 3.0 there was a symbiotic relationship between sch and whm t13 for example (without echo) can you imagine how hard it was for a group to survive Gigaflare without supervirus and soil (implying u had dragon kick),or can you even imagine how hard was for a scholar to heal everyone to full from rage or gigaflare? sch was assigned to heal the offtank bcs the offtank took more dmg on add phases and sch was superior single target healer. In hw they took away a bit of WHM aoe healing power and gave it to scholars in form of ET-succ and indom , and took away some of the single target power of scholars on tanks(25% to 600 pot) and gave some to whm(tetra). Hw changed the relationship of sch-whm quite a bit its not that harmonios symbiosis anymore where one would perfectly complement the weakness of the other.

[Eudyptes]

Actually no heavensward changed the identity of sch and whm quite a bit

I can't/won't speak for sch cause I rarely played it in ARR, but whm's identity absolutely 100% did not change int he ARR/HW conversion. Do not confuse being a super special snowflake with identity. It's role/purpose is the same now as it was before. They didn't "take" AE healing power from whm, they just gave sch more to ease the stress on a whm.