What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Fevelle]

That was in HW launch, not this patch that just happened.
I might have overlooked the threads but i couldn't see it being such a big thing with it barely mentioned and now people act like the sky fell from the heavens.

Because the changes from 3.07 made it more apparent. This is NOT an AST problem, it's a WHM problem.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Here's something that would be nice:

The majority of cross class skills are generally buffed by traits that the initial class has (ex. Invigorate restores more for DRG, Raging Strikes has shorter CD for BRD, etc).

Now they removed our trait on Protect, which is fair, because they didn't want groups to require WHM for the better Protect.

But Cleric Stance is the same for all three healers. So how about giving us a trait that boosts the damage increase from Cleric Stance?

Just a thought.

[Risvertasashi]

Because the changes from 3.07 made it more apparent. This is NOT an AST problem, it's a WHM problem.

AST has a stake in this because strictly speaking, it both healers' problem. AST's core feature has nothing to do with healing and most of their core healing spells are reskinned WHM spells, with only two that act slightly different in Nocturnal Sect.

My personal thoughts at AST's release were that it shouldn't have made cards such a bolted-on kind of thing but I know that ship's sailed.

[Raso]

Here's something that would be nice:

The majority of cross class skills are generally buffed by traits that the initial class has (ex. Invigorate restores more for DRG, Raging Strikes has shorter CD for BRD, etc).

Now they removed our trait on Protect, which is fair, because they didn't want groups to require WHM for the better Protect.

But Cleric Stance is the same for all three healers. So how about giving us a trait that boosts the damage increase from Cleric Stance?

Just a thought.

That would be tough, being able to go into Cleric Stance in a group requires you to be healing for far more than is expected to free up the GCDs to cast DPS spells, meaning you need to outgear the content or they need a flat healing buff.

One thing they could do is make dps spells in Cleric Stance heal the lowest HP friendly target within like 6y of the target that is not you for like half the damage done.

[Mutemutt]

*Cure 3 has such a short range that it really isnt something that is THAT useful.
*Snip

Just a few things I want to add.

-Astrologian has no cure 3 equivalent. Uses may be rare, but they are unmatched.

-Lightspeed, besides being useful for the mp cost reduction and extra mobility, also does work out better than PoM for any cast longer than the gcd assuming your swiftcast is down (in other words the rez, med 2/ aspHelios).

-Synastry is better when using single target heals, but Divine seal ends up better for aoe heals as well as having a shorter cooldown. And there is the HoT factor, of course.

-Assize is mostly a mana return tool, yes, but it's not unusual to benefit for the heal and dps portions of the skill, free of charge. Theoretically speaking, if there was no need for the healing portion, couldn't you switch to cleric and get a 300 pot aoe out of it since there would be no damage going on?

Overall, I think the one thing white mages can all their own is their aoe healing ability (and dungeon running aoe damage, if you care about that sort of thing). What's that worth compared to the alternative healers in the current and future content? Not really sure.

[Lastelli]

Could it not be argued you're guilty of exactly what you're ranting about? You have someone calmly explaining why you're wrong in your hostile responses and instead of changing you dig in deeper continue to say the same thing and give him baseless rants in return.

Not really, as hostility is something that is perceived differently by every person, while in my comments I just compare objective stuff while giving subjective opinions providing examples for explaning how my opinion was formed. Go back a few pages and tell me if all these angry sch/whm provided any practical example (i.e. savage mechanics) to explain why AST is OP, why their skills are "useless", why they are now weaker than AST and so on. In my comments I also had to correct people that simply didn't know what the effect of a skill was, or what the potency was. People saying things like "300 potency with a 130% bonus" or "aspected benefic shield with synastry has higher potency than crit adlo". No opinions here, only very trivial calculations to prove those guys wrong. And, believe it or not, a lot of these whining people just proved in a few comments that they didn't know what the effect of the skill the were complaining about was, someone even said that "CU is a rebranded whispering dawn".
Now, if you want to tell me you don't like my attitude fine, I can take that, but twisting the argument around "hostility" or "animosity" while we're talking about very precise things doesn't work, sorry. You either give a good enough explanation to back your points or you're just whining for the sake of it.

[Kosmos992k]

Please check your facts, Proshell was taken away and just given default to Protect so you didn't suffer a nerf there and Graniteskin changed the 10% stoneskin to 18%

I did check, but it's hard to find information that specifically compares the old traits to the new etc..(though I am sure that several people will be able to leap in, provide a link and prove me wrong on that...). However, the point I was making was referencing the loss of identity, not simply the loss in potency. The fact that everyone get's Proshell in effect means the same, since prior to this change the WHM Protect was considerably more powerful than Protect used by others, and now it's not. Giving the trait as a default to all has the same impact as removing it from CNJ/WHM. The net effect of the changes is that both Protect and Stoneskin have lost the uniqueness because characters playing the class/job that originate the skills no longer have a potency advantage over those who borrow the skill.

You are correct in saying that Proshell wasn't taken away, however the net effect of the change is the same.

[Gist]

So it seems I might have been correct.

[Risvertasashi]

I did check, but it's hard to find information that specifically compares the old traits to the new etc..

The precise change:
ARR protect (including crossclass version) only boosted PDEF. Traited protect boosted PDEF and MDEF.
Heavensward: There is only 1 version of protect and it boosts PDEF and MDEF.

[Raso]

Overall, I think the one thing white mages can all their own is their aoe healing ability (and dungeon running aoe damage, if you care about that sort of thing). What's that worth compared to the alternative healers in the current and future content? Not really sure.

My math comes out to be at max 7 - 10% better in that department, seriously is that worth it over bringing the huge advantages an AST? I really don't think it is unless content is doing such extreme AoE damage overtime that its the only way to survive.

Statics should always have an AST in the group now probably with a SCH, WHM is more the emergency backup.