What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Belhi]

You all keep acting like they nerfed whm. They didn't, and it's still the highest hps healer. Quit crying.

Is that the only part of my post you actually read cause if you read it you would realise you completely missed the point of my post.

My point is that for balance issues having a healer who's identity is their healing output is fundamentally flawed. There is no way to maintain that as a specialisation and identity of a job if other jobs are supposed to fill the same role as them. The core issue here seems to be not that WHM is underpowered or that AST overpowered or even that the AST buffs were needed. The issue is that WHM lacks any real identity out of a trait that is a requirement for anyone wanting to fill their role in a group. WHM healing comes at the lack of non healing utility and mitigation. For a AST to fill a WHM's role it needs to be able to manage its healing output. However ASTs have a lot more to them than that. WHM don't.

There is the core issue. Its a problem with WHM design and the fact what makes it 'special' is tied up in a feature all healers doing the role a WHM does should have. This is probably why WHMs feel threatened. If AST can do their role as well as they can, then what defines a WHM apart from what it lacks in utility and versatility?

This isn't an issue of Overpowered or Underpowered. Its a issue of Job design.

[Kosmos992k]

You all keep acting like they nerfed whm. They didn't, and it's still the highest hps healer. Quit crying.

The 50% drop in potency of Protect and StoneSkin for WHM begs to differ with you on that score. Cutting the potency or effectiveness of those two skills more than qualifies as a nerf.

You know, I had written this long post trying to discuss the power healing and potency of various skills, but then I realized that isn't the main issue here. The OP is talking about lost identity, and most of the replies countering the OP are talking about numbers, and intricacies of skill sets, raid utility and that's not really the point.

To me the point is this (and I am not addressing raid content);

WHM has lost it's identity as the stoic power healer with strong protective abilities. The two primary protective abilities are available to several other jobs and the WHM lost almost 50% of the potency of the moves meaning everyone else can cast them as well as the WHM. In most (all?) non raid settings, AST and SCH are more than sufficient for the task at hand, none of the healers really have any issue in non raid content. So what is there about WHM that makes them stand out in normal play?

The loss of identity is actually pretty clear. Losing both Granite Skin and ProShell stripped two aspects of what made WHM different in regular content. In that kind of content, the AST has their globe and Deck O'Wonder, and the Scholar has their Faeries, WHM has a big stick. No pet, no cards and really no 'hook'. I don't really understand why people think that it's acceptable, or should be, for CNJ/WHM to lose the Granite Skin and Proshell traits, when those have been core abilities for WHM & CNJ throughout ARR.

In pre 50 content, one of the hooks for CNJ/WHM and THM/BLM was the option to pick up a physical shield, but when the only 1H weapons for WHM at level 50+ cap out at ilvl 100, and there are no shields even remotely close to that ilvl, the hook of a caster with additional survivability is gone.

When I look at it as I move into HW content as WHM, I can't use a wand/shield combination, Granite Skin and Proshell are gone, and the other two healers can keep up in any normal content, in addition to having their uniqueness and hook intact. It makes me a sad neko.

I don't care about the theorycrafted power heals fo WHM vs the others, I don't care about raid utility. I just want to play Paladin and White Mage, and have fun. Give me my bloody shield back and I'll stop worrying so much about the loss of Granite Skin and Proshell because the shield will (should) provide me with better survivability that the other healers.

I'd say the same for giving the shield back to BLM/THM as well, I think it was a great option for CNJ/THM and BLM/WHM to be able to use a 1H weapon and shield exchanging some weapon potency for useful defense. I guess that would be too much like horizontal progression though, so it's unlikely to happen....in which case, restore the traits Granite Skin and ProShell. Except, I know that won't happen either. Oh, the sad neko face is back...

Indeed. Everything special about the class was either taken away or imitated. Although I would Argue WHM is special because it can use Physical Shields like a Paladin... TAKE THAT SCH AND AST! ONLY MAGIC SHIELDS FOR YOU!

Except how many 1h weapons are there at ilvl105+? None. WHM can't use a physical shield any more than SCH or AST can once you get past level 49. There is zero point even talking about shield use by WHM (or BLM) unless SE makes some one handed weapons and shields with ilvl in the same ranges as the rest of the new gear.

I understand that, but these people that leveled all 3 healers, with hands on experience with savage holds much more weight. They give examples, explain the differences in what each healer excels at or lacks at. I would certainly hold these statements to be much more valid.

Except that really doesn't address the loss of identity, that addresses the relative power and utility of each job in a raid. What the OP is (I think) talking about, and so many are missing, is that the identity is like the flavor of food, and WHM has lost some of that flavor.

Let's say you can choose between a great Steak, incredible BBQ or a melt in your mouth Tandoori Chicken. Each of these dishes will sustain your body in almost the same manner, but each is unique and has it's own flavor. Now imagine that the steak was not flame grilled, just grilled on a flat-top and was no longer seasoned with as much salt and pepper when grilling. Now the Steak has lost a lot of it's flavor.

It's about the loss of the uniqueness and identity, the flavor that the job had has been diluted.

[Assirra]

The 50% drop in potency of Protect and StoneSkin for WHM begs to differ with you on that score. Cutting the potency or effectiveness of those two skills more than qualifies as a nerf.

That was in HW launch, not this patch that just happened.
I might have overlooked the threads but i couldn't see it being such a big thing with it barely mentioned and now people act like the sky fell from the heavens.

[ViDare]

The 50% drop in potency of Protect and StoneSkin for WHM begs to differ with you on that score. Cutting the potency or effectiveness of those two skills more than qualifies as a nerf.

Please check your facts, Proshell was taken away and just given default to Protect so you didn't suffer a nerf there and Graniteskin changed the 10% stoneskin to 18%

[DreamWeaver]

Disclaimer : Below is my personal opinion as a WHM player:
WHM's specialty is the ridiculous amount of heals it can bring.
Due to the above fact, WHM's specialty is that it has the "easiest" ability to shoulder over 90% healing responsibilities of a team.

As ironic as this sounds, a WHM's full potential can only be realized the less his co-healer is healing. If your co-healer is not comfortable with DPSing, you're better off switching over to AST/SCH, as you will not require the full healing capabilities of a WHM, and might as well enjoy the utilities a SCH/AST brings.

[rawker]

extra MND when in party?

[Noira]

You have Assize, you have decent dps, you have the strongest regen, you have the strongest aoe dps, you have an ability that auto tops off in high emergencies, you have cure 3 that when combined with DS is pretty much mp saving. You have an aoe healing soil that saves you mp.

Whm has its own identity you guys are just in tears because astro is now an option.

[Rewind]

The perception of identity is all subjective! No one is ever, ever going to agree on what makes you identify as your class or how your class is identified on a grander scale. The beauty of it about being a game is that you can place the class however you like (within the bounds of its design).

Sometimes I wish there were moderators that could lock threads. This thread is pointless, and will never benefit the community - just create more circular debates.

It's not meant to be a 'war' between the classes.

No one is replacing anyone, no one is forcing you to play a specific class, no one is favouring one class over others. Healing is about working as a team. A WHM/AST team is great, a WHM/SCH team is great, a AST/SCH combo is great - They all have their unique advantages AND play styles and there is no universal right or wrong set-up or play style to go with.

Let the flaming begin.

Also your attitude towards the debate and this notion flaming is childish...

As someone who has played both AST and WHM (AND SCH) in A1s and A2s they play very, very differently but both can do the job well now.

[Jerichai]

The perception of identity is all subjective! No one is ever, ever going to agree on what makes you identify as your class or how your class is identified on a grander scale. The beauty of it about being a game is that you can place the class however you like (within the bounds of its design).

Sometimes I wish there were moderators that could lock threads. This thread is pointless, and will never benefit the community - just create more circular debates.

It's not meant to be a 'war' between the classes.

It isn't really your place to define what is worth discussion and what isn't. Some people think this is an important topic that they'd like to discuss. If you're not interested, you're not required to participate.

[Rewind]

It isn't really your place to define what is worth discussion and what isn't. Some people think this is an important topic that they'd like to discuss. If you're not interested, you're not required to participate.

It can't be a proper discussion when the OP doesn't even have both the healing classes their making comparisons at max level.

It would be like me going to the tank forum and saying PLD has no identity because DRK has better magic damage mitigation and can do everything I can do....

OP isn't going to get anything out of it. OP is never going to be swayed no matter what other people say. They're just looking support for their own arguements