What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Noira]

Not a special privilege but let you ask you something.

Would you listen to someone who actually studied open heart surgery and has experience in it ? Or would you listen to someone who just has a feeling of what to do but has no experience in it ?

[Rewind]

I would be curious to understand what gives you special privilege to define what kinds of discussion people are allowed to start. To be honest, I have my own opinions on this topic, but it doesn't sit right with me when someone basically says 'you're not allowed to talk cause I said so'. If you see no value in this discussion, exercise free will and try some other threads.

Maybe I haven't articulated myself correctly or been too forceful. The classes play very differently and in this point of time they are unique enough to appeal to a range of play styles.

Maybe the way in which AST/WHM combos work will introduce a new play style where WHMs are expected to assist in DPS and have double hots rolling? It's only been 2 days since the introduction of the changes! How can anyone have a decent discussion when people have only been trialling it in this short period?

[RichardButte]

It's been said many times, but No matter what they do, someone will be unhappy with something. all the complaning to buff AST now they do, now its time for WHMs to start complaning that they have no "indentity" and yet they are still a highly desired if not borderline mandatory healing class.

They HAVE an identity!

Henceforth, WHM stands for "Whine Mage".

Yoshi P back in the 3 hour live letter when they first revealed new HW skills said himself that WHM was designed as the output healer or words to that effect. AST was supposed to be all about its cards. I classes identity is defined by its design. That's why I'm saying its a design issue.

Well, the best laid plans of mice and men, right?

They probably realized that they couldn't make a healer that had RNG buffs and expect it to be anything but garbage when push came to shove. :\

The buffs don't make up for crappy healing, not unless they rework the card system entirely to put healing into the cards themselves...

[Luvbunny]

Snip...

I read the thread, WHM has not lost its identity. It is one job where you are THE healer, the ABSOLUTE healer in the game, with good DPS output and good MP management. AST cannot, will not, and never ever going to match that. But you also need to read about what AST is, a job with dual sects, who can provide a similar ability of white mage or scholar, it gives player a choice which sect they want to enact to complement the other healer in your party. And AST has a nice set of cards to make up for their lack of benefits in other areas compared to the other two healers.

As much as AST can simulate the other two healers, AST IS NOT WHM and IS NOT SCH. They do not have the full capabilities of either job, just a few abilities to closely provide the benefits of the other two jobs. AST selling point is the cards, which now, are pretty good, not in OP way, but at least decent and can be great if the RNG favors the good cards.

I think you are fairly intelligent to see that SCH and WHM, each has their own unique selling points that AST cannot match, maybe closely simulate, but not excel in any of them by a great deal. If I want to be THE healer, I simply come as WHM, a job that has the best healing output in the game bar none, sorry AST, good try. If I want to be the DPS/Shield healer hybrid, then SCH is my defacto job. And if I want to come as hybrid healer who can bring decent buffs to the party, AST is the job. If people here are too blind to see the distinction, then dunno what else to say.

At the end of the day, AST is A HEALER first who has some decent cards that can buffs the party. AST IS NOT A BUFFER job who can heal here and there. The same can be said to SCH, they can DPS yes, but they will not outDPS a Summoner.... So now, we have THREE different healers in the game. Be happy, be grateful, be thankful, less bickering, and less finger pointing. Stop playing negative nancy, bitter betty, and doomsday daisy lol.

[Raskbuck]

The more I read this thread, the more I'm reminded of people who complain about immigrants taking all their jobs.
Can't we all just get along and heal stuff?

[Belhi]

They HAVE an identity!

Henceforth, WHM stands for "Whine Mage".

Now your just being rude and frankly hypocritical.

Having a healing Job who's design philosophy is built around pure healing output is flawed. Its better that this gets considered and discussed now rather than left till it actually potentially becomes an issue, particularly if they add more healing classes in the future.

[Jerichai]

Not a special privilege but let you ask you something.

Would you listen to someone who actually studied open heart surgery and has experience in it ? Or would you listen to someone who just has a feeling of what to do but has no experience in it ?

That's a bit of a jump, since you're literally trying to compare a game to a potential life and death situation. Yes, with higher risk there tends to be a higher priority of verifying sources.

But I think you're neglecting the potential impact of uninformed opinions. Let's stick to the medical theme to start. Currently, we're in a bit of a crisis with vaccinations and the control of certain disease. Some people got it in their head a few years ago that vaccines can cause side effects like autism. Now, you have a movement that's sprouted up that's promoting the idea that these vaccines are bad and are not immunizing their children. Because of bad information, people developed an uninformed opinion on vaccines, and as a result we're seeing some terrible consequences, like certain diseases making a resurgence and those who rely on herd immunity being at greater risk to contracting these diseases at no fault of their own.

Now, let's jump back to the gaming side. Remember back to a few weeks ago before the AST buffs. We started seeing threads pop up from people saying they we're being barred from content like the extreme primals. In many respects, a portion of the community was excluding the AST job likely because of general perceptions of "weakness" and the fact that AST had a known, limited presence in savage content. However, the fact is AST was more than capable of handling the content prior to, and arguably through, savage mode. The community at large was acting on an uninformed opinion about AST's capabilities and people we're experiencing diminished play experiences as a result. Alternatively, remember when that video of the AST solo healing Ravana extreme appeared? A lot of people took that as a sign that AST needed no adjustments, even though that case made no attempt to demonstrate how the other healing classes would also perform in that situation. That uninformed opinion led to a lot of frustrated back and forth on this subforum.

To take it back to your point, you have to consider the penalties/risk of bad information in these situations. Where one's health is concerned, people on average tend to seek out the advice of experts, but as the vaccine example shows, even there uninformed opinions can create problems. When you look at it in a game since, bad information posses little to no risk. So it's far easier for bad information to persist and people to act on it. In my opinion, I'd rather all opinions, informed or otherwise, come to the surface so they can be faced and discussed/disproved rationally (though that's the part forums tend to fail at).

[Luvbunny]

Having a healing Job who's design philosophy is built around pure healing output is flawed.

Not really, I want one healer job that is THE Healer, the absolute healer and the BEST raw healing output in the game. I like how playing WHM makes me feel I am the healer, and let's be honest, is the easiest of the three since you know you can top player's HP in seconds. I don't want to worry about stance dancing, thinking about cards, and all those other BS, I just want to heal, end of story period. WHM gives me that. As much as I love SCH, the stance dancing can get tiresome. AST is fun, but trying to DPS and healing, AND also worry about cards, NOT FUN! considering I don't have my trusty fairy to heal me when shit hits the fan.

WHM is great to play for people who are more healer oriented, SCH is great for people who enjoy a challenge of stance dancing, pet management, and DPSing. AST is a breathe of fresh air for players who have done either WHM or SCH (or Bard), and now they can try another healer job with similar capabilities, but slightly different, and focusing more on buffing.

[Rewind]

Alternatively, remember when that video of the AST solo healing Ravana extreme appeared? A lot of people took that as a sign that AST needed no adjustments, even though that case made no attempt to demonstrate how the other healing classes would also perform in that situation. That uninformed opinion led to a lot of frustrated back and forth on this subforum.

On the contrary, those solo heal videos and the A1s savage video thread on these forums highlighted the weaknesses of AST even more, and little to no people used these to support the fact that ASTs had the ability to heal. In the A1s video people actually were extremely rude and made generalized statements regarding how the SCH carried the raid (which were extreme and unfair).

[Verdan]

Not really, I want one healer job that is THE Healer, the absolute healer and the BEST raw healing output in the game. I like how playing WHM makes me feel I am the healer, and let's be honest, is the easiest of the three since you know you can top player's HP in seconds. I don't want to worry about stance dancing, thinking about cards, and all those other BS, I just want to heal, end of story period. WHM gives me that. As much as I love SCH, the stance dancing can get tiresome. AST is fun, but trying to DPS and healing, AND also worry about cards, NOT FUN! considering I don't have my trusty fairy to heal me when shit hits the fan.

If there's one class that is THE class that heals, that class isn't replaceable and content has to be built around the amount of healing it can put out. This is the problem with one class being the best healin' class instead of it being based around different types of healing and different things brought to the table.