What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Menardy]

Wow, wow...as someone who plays both, Whm and Ast as main i can't stand still on this topic.
Ok, i also felt quite salty that my unique Protect + Stoneskin were gone (together with the other nerfs Whm had to endure at the Start of HW), but Whm is still (and will always be) the most powerful healer in this game.
I'd rather take Divine Seal over Synastry (although I like both skills) and everyone who did at least A1S knows that the 5yalms on Medica II are not only lifesaving, but are making everything SO MUCH easier...
Plus: Ast is played completely different than Whm, so ppl saying "Ast = Whm with Cards" are really hurting my eyes...
Please...before posting such crap at least play both classes at the same content, thx.

[Rewind]

The perception of identity is all subjective! No one is ever, ever going to agree on what makes you identify as your class or how your class is identified on a grander scale. The beauty of it about being a game is that you can place the class however you like (within the bounds of its design).

Sometimes I wish there were moderators that could lock threads. This thread is pointless, and will never benefit the community - just create more circular debates.

It's not meant to be a 'war' between the classes.

No one is replacing anyone, no one is forcing you to play a specific class, no one is favouring one class over others. Healing is about working as a team. A WHM/AST team is great, a WHM/SCH team is great, a AST/SCH combo is great - They all have their unique advantages AND play styles and there is no universal right or wrong set-up or play style to go with.

Let the flaming begin.

Also your attitude towards the debate and this notion flaming is childish...

As someone who has played both AST and WHM (AND SCH) in A1s and A2s they play very, very differently but both can do the job well now.

[Eudyptes]

It is not about nerfing. It is about the fact that, unfortunately, in the process of trying to balance healers Square has failed to factor in that they need to give WHM an identity of their own if all healers are going to have similar healing potency.

Whm still has an identity. They have the highest healing output, most/best emergency skills, and best raid healing in the game. When a raid needs a healer for a healing intensive fight, their first stop will be whm.

Just because ast shares a few similarities doesn't mean you have to have a tumblr level identity crisis over it.

[Jerichai]

The perception of identity is all subjective! No one is ever, ever going to agree on what makes you identify as your class or how your class is identified on a grander scale. The beauty of it about being a game is that you can place the class however you like (within the bounds of its design).

Sometimes I wish there were moderators that could lock threads. This thread is pointless, and will never benefit the community - just create more circular debates.

It's not meant to be a 'war' between the classes.

It isn't really your place to define what is worth discussion and what isn't. Some people think this is an important topic that they'd like to discuss. If you're not interested, you're not required to participate.

[Belhi]

You all keep acting like they nerfed whm. They didn't, and it's still the highest hps healer. Quit crying.

Is that the only part of my post you actually read cause if you read it you would realise you completely missed the point of my post.

My point is that for balance issues having a healer who's identity is their healing output is fundamentally flawed. There is no way to maintain that as a specialisation and identity of a job if other jobs are supposed to fill the same role as them. The core issue here seems to be not that WHM is underpowered or that AST overpowered or even that the AST buffs were needed. The issue is that WHM lacks any real identity out of a trait that is a requirement for anyone wanting to fill their role in a group. WHM healing comes at the lack of non healing utility and mitigation. For a AST to fill a WHM's role it needs to be able to manage its healing output. However ASTs have a lot more to them than that. WHM don't.

There is the core issue. Its a problem with WHM design and the fact what makes it 'special' is tied up in a feature all healers doing the role a WHM does should have. This is probably why WHMs feel threatened. If AST can do their role as well as they can, then what defines a WHM apart from what it lacks in utility and versatility?

This isn't an issue of Overpowered or Underpowered. Its a issue of Job design.

[Rewind]

It isn't really your place to define what is worth discussion and what isn't. Some people think this is an important topic that they'd like to discuss. If you're not interested, you're not required to participate.

It can't be a proper discussion when the OP doesn't even have both the healing classes their making comparisons at max level.

It would be like me going to the tank forum and saying PLD has no identity because DRK has better magic damage mitigation and can do everything I can do....

OP isn't going to get anything out of it. OP is never going to be swayed no matter what other people say. They're just looking support for their own arguements

[Luvbunny]

For all the crybabies and chicken littles, please grow up, the sky is not falling, and AST is not killing your precious SCH or WHM job. The adjustment is SERIOUSLY needed to bring AST healing capabilities up to par with the other two, nothing more, nothing less. Now whenever you are paired with another AST, you can at least be comfortable to know their healing capabilities is not subpar and they bring a nice set of utilities to help your party to do more DPS, etc... Y'all should rejoice, and glad to see that you can now level AST knowing it is a very capable healer job.

And I got one word for those of you crybaby SCH: STFU!!! The last thing I want is for the community to realize how good and OP Scholar is at its current state. We do not need SE to do minor tweaks and adjustment so that our power is balanced compared to the other two healers, SE already did enough damage with 3.0. So kindly, just STFU, just be happy you can now DPS more with AST in the party, and no need to act like babies and putting spotlight on how great SCH is compared to the other two healers in the game.

[Coltvoyance]

It can't be a proper discussion when the OP doesn't even have both the healing classes their making comparisons at max level.

It would be like me going to the tank forum and saying PLD has no identity because DRK has better magic damage mitigation and can do everything I can do....

OP isn't going to get anything out of it. OP is never going to be swayed no matter what other people say. They're just looking support for their own arguements

Except I have altered my original post, in some parts to the contrary of what I originally thought, based on what people have said here.

And the arguement of "Only the 1337-core with lvl 60's should have opinions" has been done already in this thread. As the person said before you, if you dont like the discussion, you dont have to participate in it.

[Belhi]

The perception of identity is all subjective! No one is ever, ever going to agree on what makes you identify as your class or how your class is identified on a grander scale. The beauty of it about being a game is that you can place the class however you like (within the bounds of its design).

As someone who has played both AST and WHM (AND SCH) in A1s and A2s they play very, very differently but both can do the job well now.

Yoshi P back in the 3 hour live letter when they first revealed new HW skills said himself that WHM was designed as the output healer or words to that effect. AST was supposed to be all about its cards. I classes identity is defined by its design. That's why I'm saying its a design issue.

You say within the bounds of design and that's exactly what Im talking about. The core identity that the WHM was designed about is flawed and counter to a balance in healer role dynamics.

For all the crybabies and chicken littles, please grow up, the sky is not falling, and AST is not killing your precious SCH or WHM job. The adjustment is SERIOUSLY needed to bring AST healing capabilities up to par with the other two, nothing more, nothing less. Now whenever you are paired with another AST, you can at least be comfortable to know their healing capabilities is not subpar and they bring a nice set of utilities to help your party to do more DPS, etc... Y'all should rejoice, and glad to see that you can now level AST knowing it is a very capable healer job.

Your right about it being nice that AST can now perform their role. Sadly you seem to have failed to bother reading many of the posts and as a result have completely missed the point. This is about WHMs not AST.

It would be like me going to the tank forum and saying PLD has no identity because DRK has better magic damage mitigation and can do everything I can do....

There was threads like that though the core issue PLDs seem to have was that PLDs have inferior DPS to the other two.

On the flipside PLDs have utility the other two tanks don't, which makes it a poor mirror for the issues WHM have.

[Jerichai]

It can't be a proper discussion when the OP doesn't even have both the healing classes their making comparisons at max level.

It would be like me going to the tank forum and saying PLD has no identity because DRK has better magic damage mitigation and can do everything I can do....

OP isn't going to get anything out of it. OP is never going to be swayed no matter what other people say. They're just looking support for their own arguements

I would be curious to understand what gives you special privilege to define what kinds of discussion people are allowed to start. To be honest, I have my own opinions on this topic, but it doesn't sit right with me when someone basically says 'you're not allowed to talk cause I said so'. If you see no value in this discussion, exercise free will and try some other threads.