Normal/Savage Alexander complaint

[Welsper59]

Constant wipes has always been part of progression, and I have been with the same group since SCoB. We were all excited about Alexander, and as a group do generally enjoy the learning process. Its just the fights no longer feel exciting as we've done them so many times while gearing.

Savage fights just don't have that new and epic feel to them anymore.

SCoB (or Coil in general) isn't exactly the same degree of tedious nitpicky difficulty that Alex Savage is though. Proof being the amount of effort it took to get even the very first clear for each floor, compared to what it was like before. It's true that the fact that it's familiar surroundings can have an impact on how quickly it can wear on someone, but it's hardly a large reason for it. If it were a universal fact, and not simply something maybe a very small selection of people weigh heavily on, we wouldn't have people doing what they did to get their clears. We automatically associate Savage as it's going to be the hardest thing to do atm, especially given how long it took the best groups out there to do it, thus we naturally lower our own morale by a default even if by a small amount (resulting in a quicker response to stopping).

Something to keep in mind is that Savage is literally designed for the best of the best. I'm actually willing to bet that the rate and number of groups at which people are clearing Savage is actually intended and going according to plan. Maybe they'd have hoped for a bit more (or less) people to have cleared stuff by now, but not by anything truly noteworthy. If you're not among the top tier of raiders, you're going to be incapable of clearing it until you get better gear (even if it just means a couple pieces). Any effort before that is simply burning yourselves out, assuming you're going that extra mile to achieve what is essentially impossible for a specific group/person. Not just attempting for the experience. Not everyone is going to perform in the same dedication, effort, and consistency as these top tier raid groups, so other players need to accommodate for that fact... even if it means simply being incapable of it for a short while. Again though, not everyone is capable of handling themselves in the same way. It's very possible that all the wipes that people went through before, learning Coil and whatever else, has taken its toll and shortened some peoples willpower to continue as many attempts now. That's exactly how burnout works, and is rarely ever exclusively attributed to one specific thing. It's a build up of frustrations and relief, given time to saturate in our minds as nothing more than a memory to reflect on (negatives and positives), and apply that to what to expect now and how far we're willing to take it given the past experience.

Perhaps it could just very well be that for some folks, the repeated use of the same environment and boss types is enough reason for you to not bother with Savage, as you've indicated. Everyone has their own ways of finding boredom in something, this could be yours.

[Elazu]

Or they can just stop releasing a normal mode...

[Noira]

Or OR OR what if....they continued doing what they are doing now ?

If you are getting burnt out that's on you.

I happen to like the normal mode since I'm unable to get a static (nothing to do with ability but time) and would like to experience the story.

Besides I thought the point of doing savage and coils was the thrill of a challenge not the story ?

[Colorful]

Or they can just stop releasing a normal mode...

And give the majority of players less content to do. What a fantastic idea, why aren't you the director and producer for FFXIV?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but now that they've already implemented a normal mode, going back on it would cause a large outrage and a larger sub loss than that of the hardcore player base getting burned out (of course you're going to get burned out doing the same raid again for hours on end making only 1-5% of progress each time, take a break once in awhile). WoD failed for a large number reasons (Warlords of Draenor) and the gutted LFR was one of them. They removed proper tier sets, butchered any sense of difficulty it may have posed (easier than CT at the start of WoD in my opinion), all that to listen to the "hardcore" player base. What did that get those players? Less content due to less money, more focus on the cash shop to make up for the sub loss, and an overall worse game. Even those who were somewhat against the idea of it are not for it (like MikePreachWoW), when it was introduced it was universally hated on, now go on their forums and anyone who suggested it be removed it downvoted into oblivion while those who support get upwards of 50+ votes. LFR was not what ruined raiding as some would believe, raiding in WoD was by far the best it's been since TBC imho, or even in the history of WoW, it just lacked content but the fights themselves and raid design were incredible.

It's been remedied a tad with wing 4 & 5 of Hellfire Citadel, but it's too late, and that's why they're skipping over WoD and going straight into Legion. SE's system is great, they have plenty of content for casuals and hardcore alike (they need to work on mid tier content as I've said multiple times) but that's why they maintain a healthy player base, not catering to one and removing content from others to satisfy the 5-10%. If normal mode has killed raiding for you, then I don't think you were all into the idea of progression raiding to begin with. Many groups are still running it for that feeling of downing a difficult boss, isn't that what raiding is about to begin with? Overcoming incredible challenges? Ravana HM didn't burn me out of doing EX modes, and neither should this have any effect on that. They introduced the normal mode because they felt the content that was being developed with everyone's sub money (do the hardcore players want to pay double, or even triple to get their exclusive content?) and felt it wasn't a worthwhile investment to continue like that. They've shown that they're happy with the numbers more than ever now.

[dejavutwo]

Or they can just stop releasing a normal mode...

There is nothing wrong with there being a normal mode, and its something I'm sure most players like having.

[Akiza]

Actually SE needs to work on tiers of raiding and adding a variety of content for the most part. As far as raiding goes this game needs both casual and hard core content as well as 24 man and 72 man raiding.

[Celenia]

I don't get it with burn out to getting gear. BCOB and alexande savage are same. BCOB you need to get those ilvl 70 gear before even venture to T1, you need zenith for T2, you need at least half of ilvl 90 (which is cap weekly) or craft for T4, you need full ilvl 90 for T5 or crafted acc and half ilvl 90 for T5. The worse thing, you need to spam dungeon over and over to cap and get your gear without even bonus like nowadays DR EX. What the different now ?

If you burnt out due to getting gear (apart from crafting and gathering class), I think you need to re-schedule your raid time. For example moving it to day 3 or 4 after reset, so people can cap those gear in 2 days (in addition red script too).

[Odett]

72 man raiding.

pls no
/10 char

[Colorful]

snip

40 man raiding was awful, why on Earth would you want 72 people? The raid would have to be mind numbingly easy due to the fact that leading so much people would be very difficult. Not to mention limitations. We talk about PS3 limitations, but having 72 players on the screen at the same time in raid with spell effects would kill the PS4, even high end PCs. We also already have 24 man raiding, there's a reason why it isn't difficult, and it's because managing that much people efficiently is incredibly challenging. Here's a video covering why 40 man raiding is awful.

[Krylo]

My suggestion to prevent players from burning out this quickly is to reverse the order in which 24 mans and 8 man Normal mode is released. This way there is a lot more variety in the fights while you are gearing up for savage. Normal mode then becomes available later so that everyone can do all the story stuff.

That would mess up gear progression pretty heavily. You can't have normal dropping better/the same gear as savage, but on the same token you can't release it later and have it drop worse gear than savage because that's around the time you start being able to collect equivalent gear outside of savage. Which is to say it'd be worse than tome gear and no one would run it more than maybe once for the story which would mean no groups which would mean no one running it period.

The only way to get people running it would be to make it equal or better than savage drops, but then why would anyone run savage after normal was released if it's easier and has better drops?