Bard - they broke my job

[Aiselia]

Relatively damage? Do your math: 380-400/600

I'm not going to link it because of various people getting things deleted for showing parses, but I just googled 2.55 Bard DPS and have seen several posts and videos of people pulling over 500 DPS pre-HW.

If you only ever hit 400, apparently you weren't doing that great. "Next."

Your identity is

No, that's your opinion on what the identity is.

it's not supposed to be.

Then clearly it was bugged for 2 years.

That's not what a ranged DPS is, in any game

Wrong again. If you haven't played every game, you shouldn't say what it isn't in any game.

they raised the skill floor for BRD

Anyone who's read my posts before knows that I don't agree they made it any harder. I've said many, many times that they've made the class easier.

IJ makes TP management and dot upkeep way easier. The cast time forcing a limit on how many OGCDs you can use makes it easier. Barrage simply being "next weaponskill" makes it easier because you only have to know "Use it before Empy" and not have to pay attention to your auto attacks to maximize it.

I know what I can do

Apparently not if you think Bards capped at 400 DPS pre-HW.

[kalasnikov]

Gotta love these alexander normal geared minuet defenders "keeping up" their dps on casual raids.

[Lyaha]

I'm not "accepting" clunky game play, the fact that you're twisting my words shows me you really have no clue what you're talking about.
It's "a tad" clunky, it's more of a visual and feel issue than it is an actual problem. It's not mechanical, it's aesthetic. They can't take community feedback because of people like you who just want THEIR job to be the best. Like I said, they didn't break BRD they gave it what it needed, You're not even 60, what argument do you possibly have? Oh and by the way: they didn't "copy paste" MCH onto BRD, it was quite the opposite. MCH is the one without a class identity.

Not twisting anything, you said it was clunky, I'm not 60 because I didn't find the job enjoyable anymore, one extra skill won't change that.

I never asked the job to be the best, I want it to be enjoyable.

SE never even tried to communicate with us, most of their support don't even speak English, at most we get snippets of Japanese translated support.

[Duelle]

SE never even tried to communicate with us, most of their support don't even speak English, at most we get snippets of Japanese translated support.

This seems to sadly be the case. Though I chalk it up to the devs wanting to keep everything in HW secret up until the last minute. Usually when devs do that, it tells me they know something is gonna piss people off and would rather it happen after they've gotten into the expansion rather than before.

As I've said, talking about it beforehand would have saved everyone a headache. Having their change in design philosophy be a bit more thorough would have helped (again, I'd have no problems with it if they had changed the job from the ground up). It would have also given them a chance to react to feedback. It's still not going to make everyone happy, but you wouldn't have this split in the BRD community while creating this worry for the other jobs, because any of us (tank, heals and DPS alike) might end up getting the bard treatment without notice.

Sure, it's their game and they can do what they want with it, but making changes for the sake of making changes isn't justifiable by any means.

[Rikkustrife]

Hyper mobility and damage do not mix. Never did I suggest taking WM, because I don't do that.

what does hyper mobility mean? Shooting arrows while running seems like pretty average mobility, especially for someone who uses a bow as often as we have, archers can run and shoot in real life, and there are plenty of games where you can move and attack.

Also thematically we are an archer that plays songs , and it makes no sense to have a delayed attack for someone who is at skilled as archery as we are.

Paladins, Warriors and scholars could reach 400 dps in 2.0, so saying bards could only do that much is ridiculous, people seem to think we were much lower than the other dps, when we were only slightly lower.

[SlyRoyale]

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Actually, there were BRDs who broke 500+ DPS on pre-Echo T13 in continuous parses. It was doable back then, provided that the only time people needed songs was during divebombs and Teraflare. Aside from that, I agree with you that BRD isn't about running around firing arrows with abandon. We're a ranged DPS that can provide support with our songs, be it lowering the magical resistance of our foes, or rejuvenating the resources of our casters and physical hitters (or prevent a debilitating ailment being inflicted on one of them).

.

First off, your opinion doesn't match SE's opinion apparently. Even in the most movement-intensive fights, you're going to have plenty of moments where you can stay still (and for party coordination, this is further emphasized to bait out certain attacks and make them easier to avoid like the Oppressor's Resin Bombs and Photon Spasers in A1S). Even then, we're still far more mobile than any true caster. Second, watching for Bloodletter resets and your auto attacks isn't any harder than using Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrow. It just requires awareness, and nothing more. In fact, watching for auto-attacks is still present as long as you're stance dancing or have to turn off WM for a bit due to a movement-intensive part of a fight (i.e. Ravana's orbs, or the Living Liquid's Ferrofluid).

If anything, BRD is a bit clunky and could do with a bigger library of songs to support the party, but it's still in a good place. Could things be done to make it more fluid? Definitely. As of now, though, there isn't much to complain about since the issues are manageable.

[Gaignen]

There's a number of reasons I dislike 3.x BRD:

-oGCD weaving clunky.
-BL animation eats GCD time.
-Lost unique ability to be reactive for movement (we now have to pre-plan like casters).
-With 100% uptime Requiem (1 min each 3.5 with MP use/regen) we give casters +6% DPS overall, needs 2 casters to do more than break party DPS even.
-The above is useless in some parties/solo.
-All our support costs DPS (singing time or 15% penalties). Our only other excuse for having lower DPS (mobility) is now reduced to less than SMN.
-Mage type casters get a flat Rear acc cap, not us.
-Mage hits ignore parry, not ours.
-Ravana's "Seeing~" mechanics.

But more importantly to me is that I no longer have fun playing the job, it's now a caster. I hate playing caster DPS jobs. For me SE have broken the job. Don't try to tell me to gitgud, that spits in the face of the fact that my enjoyment of an entertainment source that I pay for has been ruined, and is just plain rude.

[Aiselia]

snip

Not even going to bother with you. Don't need this thread getting purged too.

[SlyRoyale]

-oGCD weaving clunky.

Legit issue, but manageable.

-BL animation eats GCD time.

Due to the change of play style introduced in 3.0, clipping into your GCD with Bloodletter is oddly ideal due to it being instant cast for the same amount of potency, on top of our two main DoTs having a 50% chance of resetting its recast whenever they tick for critical damage.

-Lost unique ability to be reactive for movement (we now have to pre-plan like casters).

I would argue that this isn't much of an issue since we can still react better to AoEs than true casters can. In fact, all jobs are no strangers to pre-planning for AoEs. Melees have to watch out for them while landing their positionals, and tanks also have to hold the targets in certain spots--at least have them face away from the party and make it easier for the aforementioned melee jobs to do high damage.

-With 100% uptime Requiem (1 min each 3.5 with MP use/regen) we give casters +6% DPS overall, needs 2 casters to do more than break party DPS even.
-The above is useless in some parties/solo.

Foe Requiem is still an increase of DPS, especially when you have your healers assisting with it too. Even if the only caster in your party is a healer, Foe Requiem can still help out. It even boosts the damage of NIN's elemental Ninjutsu and DRK's spells, albeit slightly due to the frequency of when they're used.

-All our support costs DPS (singing time or 15% penalties). Our only other excuse for having lower DPS (mobility) is now reduced to less than SMN.

Which is why you try to play these songs during downtime or in uptime where it won't have a major impact on your DPS when it matters. Even then, WM grants us a 30% damage boost so playing Ballad or Paeon only reduces the bonus to 15%. This is far better than doing -20% of our DPS back before the stance was added.

-Mage type casters get a flat Rear acc cap, not us.
-Mage hits ignore parry, not ours.

This is because casters deal magical damage where BRDs deal physical. It's not an issue in the slightest.

-Ravana's "Seeing~" mechanics.

Again, a non-issue. Fights like Ravana are scripted, making it easy to know when he'll perform these moves.

It is a shame that you do not enjoy the job anymore. Although, bear in mind that BRD is not a true caster and still retains advantages over true caster jobs. We are still more mobile than casters and we bring utility most jobs don't have in their toolkit. I won't tell you to git gud as it'd just lead to senseless namecalling and whatnot, but I will say that some of the points you brought up aren't major issues aside from the clunkiness, which is manageable.

Not even going to bother with you. Don't need this thread getting purged too.

My points still stand. Even the most movement-intensive fights do not demand constant movement for an extended period of time, and if they do it's usually during downtime or doesn't last that long anyway. The clunkiness is one thing, but paying attention to Bloodletter and auto-attacks isn't what I would call more "difficult" compared to the Wanderer's Minuet.

[Aiselia]

Even the most movement-intensive fights do not demand constant movement for an extended period of time

And I never said that they do.

And that's exactly why I'm not going to get into an argument with you.