Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

[scx]

Then you can not keep GL3 up. Dude, do some testing before you make claims, it's that easy.
And if you wanna SP/anything before DK / TW then that's a pure potency loss.

[Allyrion]

Then you can not keep GL3 up. Dude, do some testing before you make claims, it's that easy.
And if you wanna SP/anything before DK / TW then that's a pure potency loss.

I already tested it. You won't lose GL3.
Are you just completely misunderstanding?
I'm not arguing which PB sequence is definitely the highest potency anyway.

I'm saying that whichever you pick, you can use form shift to optimize it.
I tested your rotation and I tested it with form shift. You can include FR before TW and DK falls off.
The timing is exactly the same but PB is weaved into the GCD instead.

Adding an extra SP at the start would make everything in your PB phase stronger.
Testing it seems like a dps increase.
But even if you choose not to do that, you would still use Form Shift because it can only quicken your opener regardless of which you choose to do.

Then that means Form Shift isn't necessary. You can use it, but what's the point? If you're more comfortable that way, go for it.



No, it is exactly the same.

It isn't, because PB has an animation delay.
ST > DM (PB) > SP > SP
is more optimized than
ST > PB > DM > SP > SP

There's a reason you don't use off GCDs when the GCD is up if you can help it.
There is an animation delay no matter if you refuse to accept it. So Form Shift will always let PB be weaved in like an oGCD should be.

It's not going to break your dps, but if we're talking optimal then there's no reason not to do that unless you just don't want the hassle.

[scx]

No, adding a SP at the start is a waste of a gcd after obtaining GL3, which you do exactly the same way I do.
Which is any variation of DM->SP->SP. Exactly the same. Form Shift doesnt matter. Additional SP don't matter.
If you weave PB or not doesn't matter either, the assumption is that you hit your first move on pull & then every gcd after.
Maybe I'm just not getting what you're trying to say, if so I'm sorry. Would help if you recorded or provided some math.

Edit: I see. The misunderstanding comes from this: I personally do not use ST at the start, it is more optimized to walk in with the tank (pull macro) and hit DM as soon as he pulls.

So yes,

ST > DM (PB) > SP > SP
is more optimized than
ST > PB > DM > SP > SP

is correct.

[Allyrion]

No, adding a SP at the start is a waste of a gcd after obtaining GL3, which you do exactly the same way I do.
Which is any variation of DM->SP->SP. Exactly the same. Form Shift doesnt matter. Additional SP don't matter.
If you weave PB or not doesn't matter either, the assumption is that you hit your first move on pull & then every gcd after.
Maybe I'm just not getting what you're trying to say, if so I'm sorry. Would help if you recorded or provided some math.

SP at the start, I'm not sure if that's more dps.
I've just been clarifying that you don't add it at the end of PB so the timing is exactly the same except with a SP at the start.
Meaning your PB just has one GL stack going into it and the timers are exactly the same as yours otherwise.
I don't have the math. I've just tested it. But I'm not arguing it's the best.
The only thing I'm arguing definitively is that Form Shift is always better.

Assuming you hit the Boss with Shoulder Tackle.
You then activate PB and it has an animation delay before your first attack.
If you used form shift in Coeurl in the exact same scenario, you would have done Demolish (using your rotation) in that same instant.
Then PB is used before the GCD comes up again.

This means PB is used properly as an off GCD, because it is used between GCD downtime. Otherwise your rotation has you doing nothing in that downtime between attacks (since you activate buffs later).
Off GCD abilities should not take up time when your GCD is up. PB is one of those.

In your rotation you're waiting for Shoulder Tackle's animation and then PB's animation then you use your Demolish.
In a rotation with Form Shift, you wait for Shoulder Tackle's animation and you use Demolish in place of PB, then PB gets used waiting for the next GCD using that downtime efficiently instead of just waiting for the next GCD attack.

This is why Form Shift will always be optimal (regardless of your opener) because you start your GCD attacks right after Shoulder Tackle instead of after PB (which doesn't start your GCD cycle).
I don't know how else to explain this. Sorry I don't record.

It's just following that basic concept that oGCD needs to be fit between GCDs for the most efficiently because they are better used to fill the downtime between GCD cycle.
That's why we could theory craft the opener, but however it goes Form Shift will be used to start the GCD cycle on the pull.

Edit: I see. The misunderstanding comes from this: I personally do not use ST at the start, it is more optimized to walk in with the tank (pull macro) and hit DM as soon as he pulls.

So yes,


is correct.

Oh okay.

[Hakmatic]

That's why we could theory craft the opener, but however it goes Form Shift will be used to start the GCD cycle on the pull.

Not really. You can ST and PB(gotta have amazing latency) without missing a gcd, and even then thats not what matters. What matters is how will your rotation play out depending on how you start your opener, and also what gets buffed and when. I can you tell you now that snap-pb-snap-snap-demo is not optimal, you only get 1 demo buffed with b4b and ir(no twin either cause you havent made it that far into the opener) and no demo with pot. I almost agree with the other guy that the old opener is prolly the best bet now. For one, the rotation flows very smoothly, you also get a fracture fully buffed in place of a snap. The only time that extra snap plays a part in a dps gain is if it was going make a fully buffed demo in the PB opener, and as I stated before if you do the 3 snap demo opener the second demo will not be buffed with anything therefore its a potency lose all together. Obv we will need more testing and seeing as I havent monked in a while and prolly won't get too since im gooning, I could be wrong.

[Allyrion]

Not really. You can ST and PB(gotta have amazing latency) without missing a gcd, and even then thats not what matters. What matters is how will your rotation play out depending on how you start your opener, and also what gets buffed and when. I can you tell you now that snap-pb-snap-snap-demo is not optimal, you only get 1 demo buffed with b4b and ir(no twin either cause you havent made it that far into the opener) and no demo with pot. I almost agree with the other guy that the old opener is prolly the best bet now. For one, the rotation flows very smoothly, you also get a fracture fully buffed in place of a snap. The only time that extra snap plays a part in a dps gain is if it was going make a fully buffed demo in the PB opener, and as I stated before if you do the 3 snap demo opener the second demo will not be buffed with anything therefore its a potency lose all together. Obv we will need more testing and seeing as I havent monked in a while and prolly won't get too since im gooning, I could be wrong.

More than the buffs being up, the clipping is questionable for 3x SP + DM.
If you do

SP (PB) > SP (BfB) > SP (IR) > DM (Pot) > DK (EF) > TS (HF) > Touch of Death (Steel Peak) > Bootshine (Forbidden Chakra) > True Strike > Demolish > Fracture > DK > TS > SP

You get 2 GL3 DMs buffed with BfB and IR.
You have everything up for the second DM, and for all your oGCD attacks as well.
But the first GL3 Demo is clipped at 12 seconds.
That's the rotation I would lean towards.

I don't have the math for it.
What you lose out is Fracture being fully buffed, what you gain is the second DM that should be a dps gain despite the clipping.
Is it more than what fracture gains from the buffs? That's what I'd have to math out.

EDIT: Actually Fracture would only be missing the IR with the rotation above.

And even with amazing latency, you can't ST and PB without a delay. The instant you can PB after ST, you can start GCD cycle with a gcd ability.
If you don't use ST, it won't matter.