Tank Balance

[Reynhart]

but read again dps is just 1 side effect, the biggest one is mp and how situational and not helpful at all it is.

Yes, a side effect that shouldn't be considered. It's just funny that every thread is filled with that "side effect" for pretty much everything
Apart from that, yes, Clemency is a good skill but a little bit impractical.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

so many situational abilities that only work "on that dungeon that one time when the planets align" sure you can tell me about how you save the group that 1 time or you prevent a wipe on that raid.

Yup. Tempered Will, Sheltron and Shield Swipe are the main three skills that wouldn't hurt from some adjustment imo. The issue isn't so much that they're not useful, because they are from time to time, but the times when they are useful can be lack luster.

But then. . . maybe this is just the way the universe is meant to be.

#Inception

[Ercapote]

I don't appreciate your ruse, sir.
To offer me pizza with no actual way of giving said pizza in a consumable form is facetious in nature.

You still have #nochill

ok then... NETFLIX and chill?

[carbonx]

Tempered Will: A3S says hi. Literally makes the knockback between the hand splits so easy. Your OT doesn't have to run across the arena to pick theirs up, and you don't get pushed in random directions which can be make or break for the hand of prayer/reach mechanic. Can also be used to maximize dps uptime for you in lots of fights. Tempered Will is situational, but very very powerful.

Shield Swipe saves you so much TP while you are tanking. Don't care much about the pacification if it means I don't need to beg for goad when a dps could use it more.

Shield Bash: Again, A3S says hi. Only thing I would change is make the TP cost lower.

I also agree PLD seems to be lacking in magical mitigation comparatively. We rely a lot on physical blocks, which aren't as useful in some fights (A1/4). However, I think Sheltron is a very strong CD considering everything is timed you can always block a physical tankbuster with proper planning on your part.

[Donjo]

Cover, Tempered Will, and Other Things

I know that I tend to write long posts, but please try to read the entire thing if you intend to directly reply to me.

You spent half of your post explaining how using Tempered Will to not get killed by Landslide(and other similar generic situations) is a bad way to use it... when I previously stated that:

1. Tempered Will is useful if you're caught in a situation where you cannot dodge the normally dodgeable knockback/draw-in attack. The specific Titan EX instance I mentioned referenced an undodgeable Landslide, which can happen from the MT's point of view.
2. Using Tempered Will solely to be lazy is a waste of the skill.

That being said, Safety Net does not mean "pop Tempered Will and then purposely get hit by the attack because I'm safe now". That's lazy, which... see above.

And this brings us to Cover now as well. Cover, along with Tempered Will, are probably most intended to be used as Safety Net skills. Safety Nets exist to catch us if we fall. Tempered Will is only effective if it is used proactively; ie. before the unwanted movement effect in question happens. Unless you have a specific niche plan(such as a maximize uptime on the boss strategy) then the ideal use for Tempered Will is to, if you ever feel like you're in danger of being moved around, pop it... and then continue attempting to avoid the effect. It isn't there to foster laziness; it's there to save your bacon is you make a mistake.

Cover, on the other hand, is a Safety Net skill that usually lends itself to reactive use. Enemies should typically be targeting Tanks with physical attacks, but if anyone makes a mistake that causes an unwanted target to start getting hit, Cover is a Safety Net that can catch them before they die. While Tempered Will has a good number of situations where it can be utilized in a useful manner outside of just being a Safety Net, Cover has fewer of these situations and will thsu most often be used to respond to an error.

If you think about things in terms of Safety, it can be seen that these two skills fit the aesthetic of the Paladin very well. After all, they're the "safe" Tank. Okay to Good Paladins may see these kinds of skills, think "when will I ever need this? Off the hotbar you go!", and go on their merry way. A Great Paladin will survey the battlefield, keep an eye out, and use them to help maximize the safety of the party should things go sour. Aside from fixing the "only one combo is boring!" situation, Paladin's new skills just make things even safer. Sheltron? A free block and a decent chunk of free MP to help power Clemency, a useful emergency heal. And Divine Veil? It does require a bit more work than what is perhaps strictly necessary to get its benefit, but some damage absorption is always okay in these endgame fights that oh so love to attack the party.

These abilities are all integral parts of what makes a Paladin a Paladin, and they don't need to go anywhere.

And Ercaporte? You're so eager to complain about Paladin that you are literally blind to what it does well and greatly exaggerating its weaknesses. Iagainsti is right. You should chill out a bit.

[karateorangutang]

I dunno, seems like 95% of the Paladin mains are happy with it, I guess just keep it the way it is?

I'm fine with that.

[Ercapote]

hi .

Tempered Will: say hi back to A3s, yes I guess it might help not moving from the middle, meanwhile I can just go back to the middle :/ dps will be pushed back so not that much of maximization.

shied swipe : don't save you "so much" TP in fact you can say it's worth using it's a dps lost and you do better by combo ROYAL AUTHORITY than by using shield swipe. pld tp will be blown at the 2.45min mark anyways.

shield bash: hi again A3s again, nothing that DRK and WAR cannot do and hit harder

GL with sheltron in AS there are none physiscal tankbuster

sorry if it sound offensive not trying to be but it's just...meh

[RecklessLion]

I dunno, seems like 95% of the Paladin mains are happy with it, I guess just keep it the way it is?

I'm fine with that.

They're true paladin users. Everyone else wants to remain on top of crown doing any and everything. Like I said I remember reading how amazing the PLD was in 2.0 and 2.5 and now because of burn phases the PLD generated all these issue? A huge question mark. For better or worse PLD want to be to the go to tanks or else all this buffing to secretly over powered the PLD in all areas while Warriors remain dps and DRK throw their sword all over the place. Your class have a role and specific way they do their job. It is what it is. Only two classes I can think of that should rant like this. Monks and DRK and the crazy thing I don't see DRK complain I think they're happy with slapping folks with their sword.

[carbonx]

GL with sheltron in AS there are none physiscal tankbuster

Literally every cleave in A3 is physical. Most of the attacks in A2 are physical, the hardest of which is the cleave from the Jagd Dolls which you can predict and block with sheltron. Basically, you have no idea what you're talking about. Not the same "oneshot hits", but you can still die if not properly mitigated.

Shield Bash, unlike WAR and DRK and every DPS, is GCD, meaning you can literally stun whenever needed without needing to hold it and lose DPS like those classes.

Shield Swipe is still DPS while saving TP versus going completely dry and doing a grand total of 0 dps while you wait for it to tic back. Ultimately, that is a DPS gain. It can also be seen as a DPS gain if your DPS can keep going, and your Bard can go without playing Paeon for longer.

Tempered Will literally saves random wipes in A3S you otherwise are very powerless over. Unless you've seen the fight, you likely won't understand how strict the timing/distance for the mechanics are.

[karateorangutang]

They're true paladin users. Everyone else wants to remain on top of crown doing any and everything. Like I said I remember reading how amazing the PLD was in 2.0 and 2.5 and now because of burn phases the PLD generated all these issue? A huge question mark. For better or worse PLD want to be to the go to tanks or else all this buffing to secretly over powered the PLD in all areas while Warriors remain dps and DRK throw their sword all over the place. Your class have a role and specific way they do their job. It is what it is. Only two classes I can think of that should rant like this. Monks and DRK and the crazy thing I don't see DRK complain I think they're happy with slapping folks with their sword.

Which is why I'm fine with it. I stopped playing PLD not because it was powerful or even good... tiers really dont concern me.

I stopped playing it because it's abilities are touch and go and its toolset has absolutely no flow to it.

If that's what makes PLD fun for people though, then more power to them.