The "Casual PvP Problem" (For Tomes and Exp) and Possible Fixes

[Februs]

Sure is a good idea. But keep in mind that many people just get into seal rock for it (like myself) will not get closer of any pvp at all. So less cannon meat if i would say it.

I (and a lot of committed PvP'ers) do not need cannon meat. We need killers. Dyed int the wool, killers. Cold, ruthless, methodical and thorough (I'm wondering if anyone will catch the reference... =P)

Seriously though. Cannon fodder is one of the problems of casual PvP'ers. Every death costs the team 5 pts. If you die multiple times, or at the very least don't match your kills to your deaths, you are sinking your team into a hole they can't dig their way out of with just tomes. Cannon Fodder is unnecessary for PvP'ers. We need killers, and we need smart ones that know it is best to work together and focus down targets as fast as possible.

Funny fact about PvP that most players don't seem to know: You can win matches without defending a single tome so long as your team is consistently murdering people. That means staying as a massive mob and zerging down targets. The more tightly packed a mob you are, the harder it is for defenders to pick out specific targets in the group. They end up auto targeting pets or tanks, and healers have an easier time keeping up. You almost always fall behind at the beginning of the match, but also almost always end up winning by 200-300 pts by the end. Unfortunately, this only works if the ENTIRE team commits to it, which almost never happens because most people are too scared to attack, or, worse, are lingering at the spawn point and hoping no one will notice because they're really only there to collect their pay stub and move on.

Ps. Your comment about PS4 targeting is accurate. So far, The ONLY downside I've had to playing on PS4 is that the targeting system is sluggish and difficult to cycle. You can fix this by setting up a mouse and keyboard to your system, but you'll still have trouble picking out targets in a tight mob. There's just too many names to sort through, and people are moving too fast. Auto targeting seems to focus pets and tanks before squishier targets, but it directional, so it can be worked. Targeting will try to lock on to the target that is closest to the center of your line of sight. Try the circle jerk to get the target you want. I am constantly disengaging targets with O and re-targeting with X after a slight camera adjustment to find the target I want. I Don't think it's something you can work as a healer, but, with a bit of practice, you can work it as a dps/tank. I've gotten pretty good at it now that I've had some practice.

[Zorlinta]

Cannon Fodder is unnecessary for PvP'ers. We need killers, and we need smart ones.

Well without a good explain, a good plan, and good leaders we casual players are just cannon fodder.

Funny fact about PvP that most players don't seem to know ....

There are not any in game tutorials for PvP, or any instruction at all.
You are just thrown into a zone and let Gods helps you. Watching videos may help but still need a deep in explain about the Goal, Area mechanics, Strategies, etc
Also in diferent runs seems to be diferent instructions, some leaders say Stay and Defend. Other ones say Go and Attack. So wich one should be??.

You can fix this by setting up a mouse and keyboard to your system.

This would be good but remember that ps4 is tied to TV and controller is wireless. Also often you play in a sofa, chair or a bed where is really not comfortable/possible have a mouse and keyboard around.

[Februs]

Well without a good explain, a good plan, and good leaders we casual players are just cannon fodder.

This is true, but it's the hesitation that kills people.

The problem is that there really is only TWO strategies to this game mode. Cap nodes and defend, or full assault. The thing is, most PvP'ers go for the option that is more obvious. They go for the closest node, cap it, and try to dig in. The problem with this is that there is not a single character class in this game that is not built for some variety of assault. You can't form a shield wall. You can't erect barriers or defenses (ground aoes are pitiful for those of you thinking that's a defense). There's no real way to actually "dig in." The only strength a team has is in numbers and concentrated efforts. When people realize that, it's pretty easy to see that you're only real option is to attack.Even defense strategies require an attack at some point, in order to capture nodes (unless you are totally blessed by RnGsus and just get them without any fighting).

The problem is that people chicken out and fall back on camping the nodes because it's "safe." They don't realize that it's only safe until you get attacked and find out you have no real means of holding back the attackers. Worse yet, people are constantly torn between what they should do. You get the aggressive people wanting to attack. You get the cowards wanting to sit back and avoid fighting at all costs. and then you get the people caught in the middle unsure of where to go or what to do. This leads to divided forces, and the strays get picked off when they don't have the full force of their team behind them.

It happens a lot. You're not alone in this. It's not just a "casual" pvp'ers problem. It's a problem born of bad communication and people not really getting how this game mode should be played. Experienced PvP'ers can usually direct their team in a smart way, and more skilled players make the fighting go easier, but, as it is now, the experienced pvp'ers are dramatically outnumbered by the casual players who only yell one thing in the chat box: "Defend!" As if that word will somehow make defense more possible when you have your players scattered around the map and unsure of where to go or what to do.

For your controller, try the circle jerk method. I do it all the time and it works fine. Some tips are, try to keep the target you want to hit in the centre of your screen. Adjust camera as necessary, and learn to be quick with your fingers. Circle, X circle, X, find your target and pounce. It takes some practice, but you can get pretty quick at it. The only time this method doesn't work, and I'd recommend trying to find a way to work your sofa for a keyboard and mouse, is if you're healing. You can't really circle jerk your target marker to your own team mates. =/

[Guesswhat]

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The worst anyone can do is to performed halfassed attacks. Either be full in or don't attack at all. The only reason halfassed attacks works sometimes is because the defending team are either total noobs or chicken out. At times I tend to trust people to be all in, just to discover 5 seconds later half the team have chickened out.

There are also times it is stupid to attack. For example: Your team grabs 3 nodes close to each other, and there is a node far off. Attacking now would be stupid. But some people do it anyway, while your team gets sandwiched by the 2 other GCs. In this case it may actually be wise to give one up, depending on the sandwich situation. Hell, you might even want to just defend the center one if both teams goes full out on the edges.

Yeah, less PvE rewards; fewer casual PvPers. I don't know how healthy it would be to remove it though in its current state.

[Februs]

The worst anyone can do is to performed halfassed attacks. Either be full in or don't attack at all. The only reason halfassed attacks works sometimes is because the defending team are either total noobs or chicken out. At times I tend to trust people to be all in, just to discover 5 seconds later half the team have chickened out.

I know exactly what you mean. I find it's particularly troublesome with the day crowd. A few people start to trickle in for an attack, get to the edge of the node, and then poof, everyone is gone. They all bailed out and left the few brave souls to try and fend off a squad of angry enemies. It's infuriating.

As for defending, the only time I usually recommend defense is if A) the enemy is trickling in (chickens or non-committal), or B) they aren't coming at all, because they are too focused on the other GC to pay attention to you. Otherwise, I don't usually find defense preferable to offense, even when defending. Take your example. If you have 2-3 nodes, it is definitely not wise to charge out for a fourth (unless doing the Death Train strat, but that's another story.) and defending 3 is certainly hard. It spreads you too thin. Abandon one. I agree. However, even across 2, your defense is still thin, especially if the enemy throws their entire GC at you. 8-16 people cannot defend against 24, unless those 24 really suck. The better plan is to consolidate your ENTIRE team into a spear and cut through the enemy that attacks you first, or has the most points to steal. Go full offense on that team, even at the expense of defending your second node. Sure, the other GC might back cap it on you, but who cares? You will have more than made up the point difference on whatever they got off of your node by carving it out of the bodies of your attackers. Also, by riding out and completely eliminating one force of attackers as quickly as possible, you just opened up a escape route and gave yourself time; so, if the 3rd GC is really greedy and comes for your last node, you can either fight them off or bail out without getting hit in the rear.

Fighting on 2 fronts is almost never a good idea. The main difference between defending the two nodes (letting the enemy come to you and hit you until you either fend them off or the node is dry) vs attacking your attackers (riding out and crushing one group that threatens your node) is that one stands to gain you points, while the other potentially bleeds them. Defense seems like the plan that would save you points, but, if you really pay attention to the scoreboard, your gains off of the nodes you have are being dramatically reduced because you're losing points for every team mate that stand and dies trying to keep the node. The longer the assault, the more points you stand to lose. Offense gains you points by murdering your attackers. You willfully give up nodes, but you gain the difference by stealing the points from another GC.

[Guesswhat]

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Agreed, focus on 1 point is the best strat when "defending" as you said (your idea of defending is pretty much the same as mine). But then there is the problem with people disagreeing, people not listening etc. In meta I 100% agree, but achieving meta is hard with this "casual" problem. If you know your team is not 100% with you, you may want to use alt strats. AKA def strats if you will. Worst thing is to spread out on the map, some attacking north, some attacking west, some defending east etc. When I see this kinda behavior I quickly lose interest to do anything. Last game we got something like 200 pts in total. The exact thing I mentioned above happened. I lost interest as I saw the team obviously were too unorganized.

[Februs]

I lost interest as I saw the team obviously were too unorganized.

I know what you mean. It's gets really deflating to see that your team is utterly useless, completely disorganized, and has almost no chance of winning. I find this is the case, on my server, with the day crowd. I don't put in nearly as much effort at winning during the day, because I know the teams are heavily populated with casual players that don't care, don't follow instructions, and commit fatal errors like spreading out or losing sight of the objectives. Trying to get them to organize or focus is something of a nightmare too. It's like trying to control a class of pre-schoolers. So, during the day, I usually just go with the flow or handle my PvE jobs and wait for the night crowd, who I know will at least be a bit more competitive.

[Synestra]

Well without a good explain, a good plan, and good leaders we casual players are just cannon fodder.

Casual or not it should only take match or two to understand how seal rock works, you can easily impliment basic irl war startegy in there like flanking low defece targets(tomeliths)or take notes from MOBA/RTS/FPS games and apply them in here. Like ignoring tome that has less than 20% left(if its close and theres no defece, then ofc you go and cap it even if you only get few ticks), pre-scouting new spawns so you can insta cap them when they spawn. I always get mad when peeps starts to whine that we lose because there is no leader, you dont need a leader just use commonsense and minimap thats all you really need in here.

PS: Sometimes these so called "leaders" just plain suck and dont even know how seize is supposed to be played(seize is pretty much adapting a changing situations on the fly, thanks to tome spawn RNG)or their "commads" are announced waaaayyyy too late. Sure there are good leaders but its still best to know everything by yourself so you dont need to be babysitted.

[Zorlinta]

Casual or not it should only take match or two to understand how seal rock works, you can easily impliment basic irl war startegy in there like flanking low defece targets(tomeliths)or take notes from MOBA/RTS/FPS games and apply them in here.

Not true, for me took me like 5 match to understand the mechanics and how those nodes appear, also never been really interested in other pvp games.

just use commonsense and minimap thats all you really need in here.

Common sense tells me not move and run away/hide from battle to stay alive.

Still best to know everything by yourself so you dont need to be babysitted.

The only thing in wich i agree with you.

[Synestra]

also never been really interested in other pvp games.

Well this explains alot then, if you havent done any pvp in any game then its not suprise and that is totally understandable. All you need is practice when it comes to pvp in general so you understand how it works, and this is what i meant by having a common sense. Also there is no need to be afraid to die in pvp, it happens for multiple reasons now and then and no matter how good you are you cannot solo whole alliance without support. Just play smart and try to avoid death as much as possible while still playing the mode as it is supposed to be played(there are times when its best just to defend and times when you and your allies need to push hard on objective even if it ends full team/alliance wipe, atleast you tried and that is what matters most).