Bard - they broke my job

[Farendol]

I really think they let the Bard (and machinist) classes down by adding movement restrictions. There must have been a better way to buff the class without adding an entirely new play style.

On Moogle server, at least, its created a bit of a gap in bard numbers. I regularly see posts on PF advirtising to fill the support role that now, seemingly no one but the dedicated few, are playing.

[Warlyx]

I really think they let the Bard (and machinist) classes down by adding movement restrictions. There must have been a better way to buff the class without adding an entirely new play style.

On Moogle server, at least, its created a bit of a gap in bard numbers. I regularly see posts on PF advirtising to fill the support role that now, seemingly no one but the dedicated few, are playing.

/raises hand :P

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I really think they let the Bard (and machinist) classes down by adding movement restrictions. There must have been a better way to buff the class without adding an entirely new play style.

On Moogle server, at least, its created a bit of a gap in bard numbers. I regularly see posts on PF advirtising to fill the support role that now, seemingly no one but the dedicated few, are playing.

I'm sure I've said it before, but given that other than T11 and maybe one other instance where I HAD to stay on the move throughout the fight, there's never been reason I needed to move around that much. The freedom is nice, yes, but necessary? No. When you add to that the fact that you can still move within the last .30 sec of a cast freely without interrupting your attack, movement is still possible, albeit not constant. This is something I'd done as both a WHM and BLM who have longer cast times too.

By now, someone somewhere is thinking "yes yes, that's been said, whatever", fact is, having level MCH to 60 and casually getting BRD to 54 (just got Empyrial Arrow and fell in love all over again) I've tested each and every new skill, and my ability to use it smoothly, and I've done exactly that. I'm not saying Minuet doesn't have its clunky moments, but it's not so unusable or game-changing for someone that didn't waste movement before. If anything, it's a reward for being adaptable, and I'm grateful for it.

[Duelle]

I'm sure I've said it before, but given that other than T11 and maybe one other instance where I HAD to stay on the move throughout the fight, there's never been reason I needed to move around that much. The freedom is nice, yes, but necessary? No.

As I've said, mobility is nice when wanting to set up Straight Shot's buff and your DoTs while getting into position (I don't stack near casters and heals, specially in fights with targeted telegraphs). Not to mention WM means bye bye multi-dotting (too much time spent casting that over attacking the focus target), which BRDs are more dependent on for BL procs (which aren't efficiently weaved in because those cast bars won't let you use off-GCD skills). The mob moving and you having to reposition and being able to refresh buffs/DoTs on the move while getting into position again (like you've been able to for 51 levels) is also gone. It sounds like minor stuff, but it does affect the flow of the job's gameplay.

[Aiselia]

Not to mention WM means bye bye multi-dotting (too much time spent casting that over attacking the focus target)

Sorry, maybe I'm missing a situational context here, but there's no difference in multi-dotting now if you don't have to move. With or without WM, you couldn't cast more than one DoT per GCD, so you'd always spend 5 (minus skill speed) seconds applying your two DoTs to another target.

At best, you may be missing 3 seconds' worth of not being able to shoot OGCDs at the focus target if you swapped between the alternate targets to shoot a DoT, then back to focus target until GCD was up, then back to alt target for the second DoT.

[aabe]

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Yeah, I disagree with what you're quoting too, bye-bye multidot is not a thing AT ALL

If you want the best DPS you want to be gunning out the highest potency possible for that gcd, if an extra dot is applicable you are gaining a LOT of damage just from the dot alone nevermind procs.
If anything it's better now, for sustained multidotting you aren't burning nearly as much TP and you're spending less GCDs to keep multidots up.

[Duelle]

Sorry, maybe I'm missing a situational context here, but there's no difference in multi-dotting now if you don't have to move. With or without WM, you couldn't cast more than one DoT per GCD, so you'd always spend 5 (minus skill speed) seconds applying your two DoTs to another target.

At best, you may be missing 3 seconds' worth of not being able to shoot OGCDs at the focus target if you swapped between the alternate targets to shoot a DoT, then back to focus target until GCD was up, then back to alt target for the second DoT.

Again, it seems like minor stuff, but still makes a difference. Considering it feels long on MCH (which only has one buff and one DoT to maintain), it's worse on BRD with 2 DoTs and a buff.

[aabe]

Again, it seems like minor stuff, but still makes a difference. Considering it feels long on MCH (which only has one buff and one DoT to maintain), it's worse on BRD with 2 DoTs and a buff.

Well I mean, in your argument, teeeechnically it takes "longer" to multidot, because it takes a 1.5 second cast before your dot applies, but if you're going to multidot while there is a specific target that needs to be focused, the time it takes is the same.

I said it earlier in the thread but it's basically what aiselia said. There ISN'T a difference compared to before, whether or not you have a cast time, as long as your GCD is longer than your cast time it is the same.

WM off WB -> VB will take you 5 seconds. WM on WB -> VB will take you 5 seconds.

[RiceisNice]

Again, it seems like minor stuff, but still makes a difference. Considering it feels long on MCH (which only has one buff and one DoT to maintain), it's worse on BRD with 2 DoTs and a buff.

Practically speaking, it's still the same output since you only ever use 1 weapon skill every 2.5 seconds regardless of cast time or not. It's just not a very fun or engaging way to do so (like SMN mutli dotting without bane). Then there's trying to use up them procs...

Well I mean, in your argument, teeeechnically it takes "longer" to multidot, because it takes a 1.5 second cast before your dot applies, but if you're going to multidot while there is a specific target that needs to be focused, the time it takes is the same.

I said it earlier in the thread but it's basically what aiselia said. There ISN'T a difference compared to before, whether or not you have a cast time, as long as your GCD is longer than your cast time it is the same.

WM off WB -> VB will take you 5 seconds. WM on WB -> VB will take you 5 seconds.

His argument is also talking into context of multi dotting on the move. And it's just me, cycling through target through target to mutli dot with cast times just feels wrong and unengaging until it's all finally set up. let alone trying to use up all the RoD resets as they come up as well.

[aabe]

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There isn't really multidotting on the move tho outside of dungeons so I assumed they weren't making that argument