Enough is enough

[RapBreon]

5. Noone is calling to nerf warrior. Buff the other classes. This isn't even a valid argument.

Given the choice. I'd choose to nerf WAR, not buff the other two. Powercreep is a pain in the ass.

3. When SE tuned content, they did so factoring in 20% human error. Meaning that compared to their perfect set-ups, human players were expected to be at 80% efficiency. The best of us exceeded that by SE's own admission. So yes, dummy parses are dummy parses. But, when you have done the same fight hundreds of times and the same rotations thousands of times with the only goal being to perfect your play, you get pretty close.

I don't know if Square used the phraseology you're using. But 20% human error? Lmfao, these guys underestimate how much spare time we have.

[Brian_]

I don't know if Square used the phraseology you're using. But 20% human error? Lmfao, these guys underestimate how much spare time we have.

Naoki Yoshida's interview with Famitsu (2015-08-11):

Interviewer: Hearing developers praise the players' skills like that, I can feel how good the relationship between both sides is.

Yoshida: Normal people make mistakes all the time, so if you put eight of them together, they can at best achieve 80% of a machine's results. Or so we thought. Those people are doing 120% by turning the fact that they're a team into an advantage and playing off their job's synergies. The fact that they can collaborate well enough to achieve that is really impressive.

[RapBreon]

Naoki Yoshida's interview with Famitsu (2015-08-11):

Interviewer: Hearing developers praise the players' skills like that, I can feel how good the relationship between both sides is.

Yoshida: Normal people make mistakes all the time, so if you put eight of them together, they can at best achieve 80% of a machine's results. Or so we thought. Those people are doing 120% by turning the fact that they're a team into an advantage and playing off their job's synergies. The fact that they can collaborate well enough to achieve that is really impressive.

That demonstrates a certain amount of ignorance/lack of experience with regards to 'hardcore' gaming populations. No-life nerds (humour does get overlooked - I'm kidding) get really good at stuff. Strange that they don't know this when they have years of previous MMOs lifespans to draw upon.

Not even teams, some players are just amazing at leveraging mechanics to boost their own numbers.

[Aegrus]

Funny that you think people that play well are "no life nerds." Some people just aren't terrible and have to fortune to have a group of other non terrible people to clear stuff. The ability to critically think cant be "grinded" some people just aren't retarded and are good. Stop diminishing skill so you feel better about your inadequacies.

Tired of the community blaming everyone else for their incompetence.

[RapBreon]

Funny that you think people that play well are "no life nerds." Some people just aren't terrible and have to fortune to have a group of other non terrible people to clear stuff. The ability to critically think cant be "grinded" some people just aren't retarded and are good. Stop diminishing skill so you feel better about your inadequacies.

Hahaha, I was being facetious. I'm one of you.

Relaxxxxxxxx.

[SpookyGhost]

That demonstrates a certain amount of ignorance/lack of experience with regards to 'hardcore' gaming populations. No-life nerds (humour does get overlooked - I'm kidding) get really good at stuff. Strange that they don't know this when they have years of previous MMOs lifespans to draw upon.

Also the game is entirely based on patterns. Even when there's RNG involved, it's just who will get targeted with what. You'll still know that someone is going to get targeted by this mechanic at this time.

This applies to everything in the game. Some people start seeing the pattern and remembering the pattern quicker than others. Combine enough of those people together and you've got a WF progression group.

[Galgarion]

Let me tell you something man, Mr. Man, Mr. Man with your big words man, let me tell you something Mr. Man. See, okay man, see, Okay, see there's this thing you left out called EQUILIBRIUM man, see it's called BALANCE man.

See this is a moist triangle man, see man, nobody is supposed to be better than anyone else man, see this is a CRAB BUCKET maaan. You know what crabs do in a crab bucket? Whenever one crab tries to climb out, the rest PULL HIM BACK IN, maaaan! So in other words maaaan, if Warriors are doing too well, THEN PALADINS HAVE CRABS!

Pull the strings! Pull the strings! Don't buff me, bro! Nerf THAT guy!

[Phoenicia]

Let me tell you something man, Mr. Man, Mr. Man with your big words man, let me tell you something Mr. Man. See, okay man, see, Okay, see there's this thing you left out called EQUILIBRIUM man, see it's called BALANCE man.

See this is a moist triangle man, see man, nobody is supposed to be better than anyone else man, see this is a CRAB BUCKET maaan. You know what crabs do in a crab bucket? Whenever one crab tries to climb out, the rest PULL HIM BACK IN, maaaan! So in other words maaaan, if Warriors are doing too well, THEN PALADINS HAVE CRABS!

Pull the strings! Pull the strings! Don't buff me, bro! Nerf THAT guy!

Too many men and crabs in this post.

And for God's sake, WAR is almost REQUIRED to do hard content in this game. People like to go on and on about butthurt PLD's angry that they're not the "MT King" anymore, yet WAR is the one tank that should be in every comp. No WAR comps do less damage and actually have less raidwide mitigation just because they don't have a WAR. WAR + DRK or WAR + PLD is better than the alternatives, but apparently that's okay and not a problem? Come on.

WAR is not "required" for any hard content. It is just that WAR is so good that there is no group willing to run without one. Same thing can be said about SCH and DRG. For the entirety of 2.x, this was also true for BRD, but MCH gave us another option.

Also while WAR was mathematically better than PLD as a MT in 2.xx, most groups required the PLD to MT. I was one of the few WARs to main tank during progression of SCoB and FCoB. In situations where I switched to DPS was because our PLD didn't play a good DPS for solo tank content. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the community demanded PLD main tank (just like how they demand a WAR tank in any tank composition now).

Yeah, but we're not saying these issues shouldn't be fixed. What I'm personally saying is this should be fixed without "breaking" the balance. You don't "balance" a class based on the current content, you balance it against the other classes. As I said before, DRK is in a good place only because the content allowed it. If the content had physical tank busters, DRKs will be the tanks on these forums demanding defensive buffs (which they need, mind you!). PLD getting the offense of the other two to fit in today's DPS race of Alex.Savage (which is what most paladins are asking for) would simply shelf one of the other two tanks permanently (Read: DRK) as PLD would have defensive superiority AND the same offense as DRK or WAR (whichever SE takes it up to).

The way this should be fixed is not by making PLD stronger, but by making it so there is an actual benefit to non-WAR comps. Right now, whatever small benefit you get from DRK + PLD setups just wanes compared to WAR's overall raid DPS benefits. That's not even taking Storm Path into account even though its benefit is less than what people make it.

Storm Path is great and all, but due to the multiplicative stacking nature of buffs, on busters the 10% damage from SP is reduced by whatever % of CDs you throw (Veng + IB is 44% so SP is actually reducing damage by 5.6% on that buster) and with SCH + WHM doing Medica 2 and Indomitability or Emergency Tactics + Succor will top anyone off even if they were critically low. SP is nothing to laugh at, but it's not the holy grail of all utility as people make it.

An example fix would be making the slashing debuff available to DRK (If it's not feasible on PLD). Two of three tanks having it means you will always have it no matter what composition of two you have, unless you run double PLD.

In my long post on the other thread, I suggested removed clunk from PLD utility and added utility to DRK. If PLD/DRK combo adds safety that any WAR comp doesn't have, people will consider them. Along with the above Slashing R. Down suggestion or inclusion of NIN (PLD+DRK Don't need monks) and you have a "solid" set up.

TL;DR: We're not against making all 3 tanks wanted, but buffing PLD's DPS is not the way to go.

[Galgarion]

Too many men and crabs in this post.

...

Karen could crush Tsubasa's cat like a worm.

[Phoenicia]

...

Karen could crush Tsubasa's cat like a worm.

Leave my Hanekawaneko-chama alone! nya~