Enough is enough

[Mikedizzy]

Other poster is correct...we want the Warriors on our side...right...come on don't call for them to be nerfed. On another note...this game is cyclicle and I bet you in the next floor of Alexander Paladin we be shining next. All jobs get their turn and we will see differences in the patches to come you can be sure.

[Brian_]

Other poster is correct...we want the Warriors on our side...right...come on don't call for them to be nerfed. On another note...this game is cyclicle and I bet you in the next floor of Alexander Paladin we be shining next. All jobs get their turn and we will see differences in the patches to come you can be sure.

You play PLD? Because I don't see it. All I see is WAR 60.

snip

I don't know if this is your alt and you have a geared 60 tank class doing end-game content, but a lot of what you've said just seems irrelevant.

1. Tanks don't "roll" their cooldowns in any content that matters. They time and stack them specifically to mitigate encounter based tank busters. In that regard, all the tanks are the same in practice.

2. Mitigation or HP are all the same thing. They're all just part of a larger eHP calculation and in that regard, the three tanks are, again, virtually equal. It's not coincidence, they were designed to be different but equal.

3. When SE tuned content, they did so factoring in 20% human error. Meaning that compared to their perfect set-ups, human players were expected to be at 80% efficiency. The best of us exceeded that by SE's own admission. So yes, dummy parses are dummy parses. But, when you have done the same fight hundreds of times and the same rotations thousands of times with the only goal being to perfect your play, you get pretty close.

4. You'd probably have to dig deep to find a comp without a WAR / NIN / BRD / MCH. But, we can easily show you one without a PLD. Rage of Halone's debuff isn't even kept up by PLDs in most cases. It's that meaningless. BRDs singing for 1 person is a DPS loss. Bringing a NIN to a group that has a PLD / WAR set up means you lose the INT debuff unless you bring NIN / MNK and that would be a DPS loss because of no DRG (top DPS + piercing debuff for BRD/MCH). You notice what's happening? You quickly get pigeon-holed into comps because of balance issues.

5. Yea, there will be statics and PF groups that still take PLDs. There are also a lot of statics and PF groups that don't because they view the job as weaker than DRK and WAR. The same unfortunately goes for MNKs (an unfortunate victim of PLD's weakness) and ASTs. It's not a healthy situation.

New to this tier is an apt description because you really have no clue what you're talking about.

[Miggiwoo]

Snip

1. Rolling cooldowns is an effective way to smooth damage. Ensuring your better CD's are up on big hits is important, but using minor cooldowns WAS a big part of tanking. If this has changed, I take your point.
2. eHP is not an effective method of tank survivability as it is based on the assumption that all damage is equal. Large health pool with large healing requirements and spiky damage is objectively worse than smaller health pool and smoother damage (in WoW they call it TMI - not sure that anyone has dug deep enough in FF to measure it).
3. My point with dummy parses is that point blank aoe and invincibility phases break the comparison.
4. Does this maybe have to do with how many people play the class? I see a lot of the other classes, still lots of pallys but much less.
5. My point remains that statics recruiting (on my server) looking for tanks are by and large after a pally. The class is nowhere near as underpowered as people make out.

[nyttyn]

Beyond play-style adjustments. What strict balancing changes do the other two tanks need? I'm curious.

Paladin needs more DPS in Shield Oath, more Enemity baked into Savage Blade/Rage of Halone, Clemency needs to be sent back to the drawing board, and they need something more than 'slightly more defense' to justify their spot in a raid. They also need more than their currently incrediby pathetic AoE damage.

Dark Knight needs general clunkiness and contraditions in the kit to be patched up. Things like needing to be hit to restore MP, but having abilities that cost huge chunks of MP that raise evasion (??). They too also need something to justify their spot in a raid beyond "better than PLD."

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Here we go again. . .

[Noira]

My honest question is...do PLDs really think SE is going to buff us without taking something away after all SE has been saying about PLD being the defense tank ?

Something has to be nerfed.

Pointing to War isn't an argument SE sees War as an Offensive Tank and PLD a Defense Tank, so if you want that dps increase something has to get nerfed.

[Adrasteia]

My honest question is...do PLDs really think SE is going to buff us without taking something away after all SE has been saying about PLD being the defense tank ?

But they aren't the defense tank. WAR/DRK can easily match their defensive capabilities (with the single exception of Hallowed Ground), and even exceed them in certain regards (tankbusters especially, unless you're able to hold on to Sentinel/Rampart to mitigate them). That's the key thing that people are complaining about: ignoring the issue of more defense eventually becoming superfluous, it'd be one thing if PLDs really were the premier defensive tank that easily outmatched the others in durability in compensation for lower damage, but it's quite another when they frankly don't even have that as a card to play.

My current preference would be for them to roughly equalize the defensive levels of the tanks, and then focus on giving them specific niches beyond that which helps to differentiate them.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

My honest question is...do PLDs really think SE is going to buff us without taking something away after all SE has been saying about PLD being the defense tank ?

Something has to be nerfed.

Pointing to War isn't an argument SE sees War as an Offensive Tank and PLD a Defense Tank, so if you want that dps increase something has to get nerfed.

You are absolutely right all these plds fail to realise if they want to gain something they got to lose something.

[Noira]

I am talking about their TANKING style.

Everyone also seems to forget:

PLD isn't just a SELF defense tank, PLD also brings party support and defense.

People can argue this all day all they want. it doesn't matter if you don't find the abilities useful or not they are there:

Divine Veil, Cover, Stoneskin, Clemency.

War nor DRK have any party defense related abilities. most of them are niche yeah but they are there and can be pretty good if you use them correctly.

PLD will probably never get a offensive dps side buff to bring them up to war or drk due to above. The shield, on top of HG on top of party related abilities is what keeps them from having offensive buffs.

That's how SE sees it. It sucks yeah but eh.

[RecklessLion]

I am talking about their TANKING style.

Everyone also seems to forget:

PLD isn't just a SELF defense tank, PLD also brings party support and defense.

PLD will probably never get a offensive dps side buff to bring them up to war or drk due to above. The shield, on top of HG on top of party related abilities is what keeps them from having offensive buffs.

That's how SE sees it. It sucks yeah but eh.

I like how you word this. People ignoring the style of play just to be like everyone else. SE should not give PLD dps buff. The best defensive tanks as well as support with dps will make it an OP class for game play sake. Warriors are offensive but that doesn't help team beside flexing muscles same with DRK from what I see. Square know this, it seems like PLD are bad only because content now are blinding what PLD truly do.