Astrologian Hate!?

[SuzakuCMX]

So, it can't bring what WHM or SCH brings to the table, unless you want to see one of those jobs shunned (although... judging from how the tank forums are acting about war, I do think quite a few on the forums would take pleasure in it).

Yeah, which is why SE backed themselves into a corner with an incredibly hard to tune class. They undertuned both its healing and its buffing because they were afraid of replacing WHM or SCH entirely and now it's not even good for farm content because it can't reliably make a clear easier via DPS buffing.

This is further worsened by the fact that they flattened the differences between healers by giving WHM more oGCD heals and MP Management options and SCH more burst heals and AoE heal options while lowering the fairy's contribution. The differences between SCH and WHM in terms of healing are marginal and SCH just has an edge in accuracy-less DPS.

And then they threw AST into the mix who can be a worse version of either healer without any of the oGCD skills and worse potencies on every measure and inconsistent marginal buffs.

That's why my hope is they'll make cards better, rather than simply giving AST more healing output.

Giving them more healing output is actually the safer option since their card buffs are generally weak and unreliable. If they had similar healing outputs to the other healers without access to the oGCD abilities they would be able to complete content more easily without totally replacing WHM/SCH since they are still required for progression content due to safety nets and DPS ability, while you could bring an AST to get the sameish healing but a smidge of a chance at meaningful DPS increases through cards (though the cards are way too unreliable right now to bring an AST solely for those).

If they buffed cards, AST is either still not as good as healing to make those who are hungry for world-first bring AST and therefore relegated to 4th tier clears/farm content, or their buffs are powerful enough that they can replace SCH as a DPS increase and leave the bulk of healing to the WHM OR even worse IMO, they replace WHM entirely because SCH + AST DPS is greater than any benefit WHM can provide.

The main problem is that, because of RR AoE, any DPS buff you can give out as an AST is extremely multiplicative with gear scaling vs. AST being able to DPS on their own vs. SCH both being able to DPS on their own AND getting to buff DPS via Selene (however slight it is). AST cards + AST DPS have to exceed SCH DPS + Selene raid DPS if they don't change AST's healing potencies. They currently don't due to unreliability of the buffs and weak MP management meaning they can't actually use their DPS skills most of the time.

It's a very fine line to walk which is why they are taking so long to buff AST after the minor changes in the hotfixes.

[Risvertasashi]

Yeah, which is why SE backed themselves into a corner with an incredibly hard to tune class. They undertuned both its healing and its buffing because they were afraid of replacing WHM or SCH entirely and now it's not even good for farm content because it can't reliably make a clear easier via DPS buffing.

That's why my hope is they'll make cards better, rather than simply giving AST more healing output.

[Vallhallix]

Unfortunately it seems square has a nact for making the most enjoyable classes the weakest. Ast is the only healer that doesn't send me into a deep sleep. Which is bad to do when you're healing, sleeping that is.

[Anatha]

But if they can fully replace one of those, that job becomes shunned. Even if AST/AST doesn't become a thing, if AST is (for example) WHM + buff cards... why bring WHM?

So, it can't bring what WHM or SCH brings to the table, unless you want to see one of those jobs shunned (although... judging from how the tank forums are acting about war, I do think quite a few on the forums would take pleasure in it).

It needs to be a viable replacement. No one in their right mind would shun WHM, because WHM is a great healer at 60.

AST is not, AST is currently subpar and cannot hold a candle to the other two.

You seem to not understand WHY a class is "shunned", it's shunned because it's bad compared to the others.

AST needs to be brought up to the point where it no longer matters who you choose.

All the healers have to bring equal healing, the AST is the only one who can't. It's always subpar no matter what. If we're meant to be a weak healer, then our buffs need to be strong enough that it's worth taking us over WHM/SCH.

You need to get it through your head that AST is not currently considered a viable alternative in progression raiding. That's what it needs to become. A truly viable alternative. In fact, given it's base nature, you could assume that AST is THE healer to take with you for progression due to the card buffs theoretically allowing for greater dps push. That needs to be the reality, because at the moment it's just what seems to be it's on paper identity.

People looked at how it performed, saw that it couldn't hack it, and went back to WHM/SCH. The job is not properly balanced. Given that cards are their identity, they could use a potency increase across the board, enough so that we can't simply be replaced by Selene.

There's also the useless CDs we have, and the lackluster ones as well. LA is on too long a cooldown to be our ONLY on demand refresh, there are times where you won't see a single Ewer in 30 minutes, leaving us to rely on LA entirely, which if things start going wrong, is not enough.

AST certainly doesn't perform well at all the second the shit hits the fan. AST is garbage in a crisis, our one "healing" cooldown doesn't even increase throughput.

Disable is junk, CU is junk, no one could really blame you if you didn't even have these on your hotbar, and CO is really only good during firework displays. There's a lot of work to be done for this job, and honestly I'd rather they'd done it like NIN, release it being slightly OP, then give it a nerf. They know HOW to balance, that's clear, since no one shunned NIN at any point. But this crap about releasing AST like WAR 2.0, it's bad for business, even when it does get balanced, the tale has already been written.

There's a stigma, and it won't go away for awhile.

[SuzakuCMX]

There's a stigma, and it won't go away for awhile.

*cries because there's still the lolDRG stigma and people think MCH is an awful class*

[Evanoel]

There's a stigma, and it won't go away for awhile.

The only reason why I won't bother trying Alexander Savage as AST. It's all Evelyn in LoL pre rework all over again. No matter whose fault is it in the group, lack coordination, bad timing, derpy ppl who don't seem to want to avoid aoe, etc, they'll all blame on the AST class. It's left bad taste in my eyes, mouth and everything. LOL

[Anatha]

I feel like you're confusing people "blaming AST" with an ENTIRELY unrelated shaming act.

[Taranok]

That's why my hope is they'll make cards better, rather than simply giving AST more healing output.

I don't want them to make the cards better without touching the healing. I want the Astrologian to be a healer that can actually stand on its own without needing to rely on a WHM/SCH to do a lot of the disaster recovery.

The devs never should have designed the class to replace the WHM/SCH at all, and should have designed it to be a healer first and foremost.

[Vlady]

Yeah, which is why SE backed themselves into a corner with an incredibly hard to tune class. They undertuned both its healing and its buffing because they were afraid of replacing WHM or SCH entirely and now it's not even good for farm content because it can't reliably make a clear easier via DPS buffing.

This is further worsened by the fact that they flattened the differences between healers by giving WHM more oGCD heals and MP Management options and SCH more burst heals and AoE heal options while lowering the fairy's contribution. The differences between SCH and WHM in terms of healing are marginal and SCH just has an edge in accuracy-less DPS.

And then they threw AST into the mix who can be a worse version of either healer without any of the oGCD skills and worse potencies on every measure and inconsistent marginal buffs.

Was fun seeing a group of 8 blood death knights beat Naxxramas 10

Giving them more healing output is actually the safer option since their card buffs are generally weak and unreliable. If they had similar healing outputs to the other healers without access to the oGCD abilities they would be able to complete content more easily without totally replacing WHM/SCH since they are still required for progression content due to safety nets and DPS ability, while you could bring an AST to get the sameish healing but a smidge of a chance at meaningful DPS increases through cards (though the cards are way too unreliable right now to bring an AST solely for those).

If they buffed cards, AST is either still not as good as healing to make those who are hungry for world-first bring AST and therefore relegated to 4th tier clears/farm content, or their buffs are powerful enough that they can replace SCH as a DPS increase and leave the bulk of healing to the WHM OR even worse IMO, they replace WHM entirely because SCH + AST DPS is greater than any benefit WHM can provide.

The main problem is that, because of RR AoE, any DPS buff you can give out as an AST is extremely multiplicative with gear scaling vs. AST being able to DPS on their own vs. SCH both being able to DPS on their own AND getting to buff DPS via Selene (however slight it is). AST cards + AST DPS have to exceed SCH DPS + Selene raid DPS if they don't change AST's healing potencies. They currently don't due to unreliability of the buffs and weak MP management meaning they can't actually use their DPS skills most of the time.

It's a very fine line to walk which is why they are taking so long to buff AST after the minor changes in the hotfixes.

Actually I feel it is the opposite way. Near 10 years of wow the indication is it is better to be slightly undertuned then get buffed in slight increments until the job is brought up to par over the fiasco of wrath of the lich king with groups of 5 death knights beating all heroics and even early raids.

[Eul]

Yeah i imagined XD that's why i wanted to reinforce your comment
Also, Ikr?
"Tetragrammaton", "apocatastasis (what the hell? )".

Asylum... really that makes me weird, isn't that place for mental problem people? Are we a mental problem people?!