Paladin need to be review.

[Isala]

Lolno. There's a reason why the healing boost was taken away from Wrath stacks and added to Defiance.

Not trying to be a troll here, but have you tried tanking anything at 60 yet? Because according to what I see, you're a 58 Warrior right now. I have all 3 tanks at 60, and haven't had problems tanking with any of them. You cannot judge the power of the tanks at ARR power levels. There have been too many adjustments to gear, stats, and abilities to go with what you know from 2.55.

[karateorangutang]

I'm shocked these threads are still going lol.

I mained PLD a long time through 2.0 and championed it forever, however when heavensward came out our WAR buddy really wanted to play DRK, so I volunteered to make the switch to WAR due to us not having a reliable ninja in our group. Now to be honest I'm not level 60 yet, but the sheer amount of utility that WAR seems to bring to the table is pretty sickening. It's an extremely streamlined and well balanced class that has an answer for almost any situation for anybody that knows how to count to 10.

Additionally WAR does so all this with a grace that PLD can't seem to manage. Now I know PLD is supposed to be more player friendly, but I don't really find that to be true. Play WAR for a few levels and look to see how easily it is to almost always have an answer to a situation.

We all know PLD and WAR both have similar CD and eHP situations ( this is arguable obviously), but at the end of the day WAR is pushing DPS while staying similarly defended. Yes you can state PLD can do everything that WAR can do, but I'm having alot of trouble seeing it. Just you wait til the PF's start asking for WAR and DRK only in farm due to faster runs and survivability not really even being a problem due to over-gearing. Then maybe we'll be able to have a civil conversation.

[Launched]

A WAR also has 25% more HP in their tank stance, and a stacking Parry buff. I'd say the two together equals the reduction in damage taken, even before the 20% boost in healing.

Nope. The increased HP that WAR gets gives them identical eHP to PLD. The increased healing is only 20%, which means that WAR receives LESS healing in terms of eHP compared to PLD and DRK. Even if PLD didn't have the Convalescence trait, its Convalescence would still be more effective than WAR's. Defiance's parry is absolutely garbage.

[Momita]

I don't want to discuss if PLD need or not a rework for flash or w/e, but just for mitigation argument.
PLD have the best mitigation. U see only CD but u forget PLD have a shield. and block rate are pretty much working well even without sheltron and bulwark. other than block, pld have even parry. War don't have much MITIGATION, have more healing buff and hp.

In this way, even best CD works. HG give to PLD and healers the best mitigation and breath. Holmgang and Living Dead.... ehm no, LD even worse than Holmgang. But it's ok, works fine even as is.

PLD works with mitigation and physical damage and a bit of magical
WAR works with HP pool and self-healing with bit mitigation both physical and magical
DRK works a lot with magical mitigation and physical with shorten recast

In this Raid there a lot of Magical Damage and PLD is a bit disadvantage compared to war and drk but with his CD he can still manage pretty well every attack, this give a good balance to all tanks

[Gilthas]

Not trying to be a troll here, but have you tried tanking anything at 60 yet? Because according to what I see, you're a 58 Warrior right now. I have all 3 tanks at 60, and haven't had problems tanking with any of them. You cannot judge the power of the tanks at ARR power levels. There have been too many adjustments to gear, stats, and abilities to go with what you know from 2.55.

You're right, I haven't. But you'll also notice that I have been mostly avoiding talking about stuff like that but instead addressing the bad math being thrown around constantly.

The parry buff from Wrath stacks doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the bonus healing of Defiance. For a lot of reasons.

[Momita]

I forgot to write, I played and Mained always Healers (both three now) but for Final Coil I Mained WAR for static need. So I know pretty well WAR. I read the new buff for every tank (DRK still a bit confusing for me XD) and are pretty similar.. This just cuz with 3 tanks and only 2 slot, they have to leave the possibility for everyone to MT and everyone to OT.

[karateorangutang]

This just cuz with 3 tanks and only 2 slot, they have to leave the possibility for everyone to MT and everyone to OT.

^This

PLD and WAR pre-3.0 went together like peanut butter and jelly. Everyone was happy with how they worked together and the synergy they brought to the table. Now, they still do have that synergy, but now DRK/WAR also shares that same amount of synergy. WAR complements DRK just as well as it does PLD, however PLD and DRK don't share that same amount of synergy. This puts WAR in an awesome position as an almost guaranteed raid slot. What needs to happen is there to be a better way to get PLD/DRK combos to work together better.

DRK needs a better support kit anyway so the focus should be there. If you love PLD then great, more power to you. It's a fun job, but it could use some love for some of it's clunky abilities. WAR's kit is nearly fully realized, it's slick and good in nearly all situations (MT or OT). DRK needs a ton of love for support skills to bring it to a level where it can truly coexist with the other tanks.

Tack onto that the DPS-centric endgame meta and there's bound to be some trouble in tank land.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

This just cuz with 3 tanks and only 2 slot, they have to leave the possibility for everyone to MT and everyone to OT.

^- This, and right now, PLD can still OT by time is not multi-target as they offer no good trade for that, and as MT Multi-target is even worse as they CD/HP return is no match compare DRK and WAR.

DRK needs a better support kit anyway so the focus should be there. If you love PLD then great, more power to you. It's a fun job, but it could use some love for some of it's clunky abilities. WAR's kit is nearly fully realized, it's slick and good in nearly all situations (MT or OT).

I am not against the idea that DRK become strong as WAR, but PLD need a fix first, or you can definitively say goodbye to PLD.

DRK needs a ton of love for support skills to bring it to a level where it can truly coexist with the other tanks.

This is an overstatement as DRK already fit perfect with WAR.

Currently:

• PLD + PLD = Miserable against Multi-Target, no decent magic defense, zero utility for multi-target (is the worse scenario)

• PLD + DRK = Half Miserable against Multi-Target, decent magic defense, Only DRK will offer good utility for multi-target (Not ideal, but work)

• PLD + WAR = Is ok against Multi-Target, decent magic defense, Only WAR will offer a NUKE BOMB utility for multi-target (still decent)

• DRK + DRK = Decent against Multi-Target, Solid magic defense.

• DRK + WAR = very good against Multi-Target, Solid magic defense.

• WAR + WAR = Nuclear bomb against Multi-Target, good magic defense, Nuclear bomb against single target.

[Akasier]

Go play a WAR then if you are that infatuated with it. Pld is in a great spot in hw.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

DEX/STR no longer affects Parry or Block since 3.0
Because PLD needed that Shield Block NERF in 3.0

Clemency Potency is increased by (Attack Power) => STR / Fight or Flight. (good luck to find any logic in that)
Divine Veil Potency is increased by VIT.

Go Go full turtle 250 DPS PLD in full Vita spamming disco ball Flash, rarw!

And i still found funny how the vast majority on this forum still swear that PLD is the strongest Tank in game when they are penalized by everything.

Hopefully in next patch, they wont totally nullify STR on Paladin because we hit too strong.