Paladin need to be review.

[Desteroth]

and here I thought because of all these complaints you didn't know paladin that well. damn

[Pr0c3ss0r]

and here I thought because of all these complaints you didn't know paladin that well. damn

so when you are wrong, you were right to be wrong? Very valid argument.

[Inuakurei]

So basically the op wants PLD to be the most optimal tank in all situations. PLD already has better mitigation than the other tanks with comparable single target dps, and now you want PLD to also have comparable aoe damage as well? Can't we just accept PLD for what it is instead of trying to make all of the tanks the same?

In 2.xx PLD was the preferred tank in just about every encounter because they are just the best at mitigating damage; and now that 3.1 is out with the Alex Savage raids WAR and DRK are getting a shot in the lime light because of strict dps checks. That's all there is to it. It's not a problem at all, it's just the way the content is right now.

PLD's were the kings all through 2.xx, just because PLD is no longer the absolute definitive choice right now, while we are at the near minimum ilv requirement for Savage mind you, doesn't mean PLD needs a buff. Give the other tanks a chance to be on top for once, PLD had all of 2.xx.

Remember 3.xx just started. I'm sure there will be content in the future of 3.xx that will shift the 'optimal' tank meta back towards PLD again.

Besides it's not even like PLD isn't viable, AS2 has been beaten with a PLD so it renders this entire argument moot.

[Momita]

Remember 3.xx just started. I'm sure there will be content in the future of 3.xx that will shift the 'optimal' tank meta back towards PLD again.

Besides it's not even like PLD isn't viable, AS2 has been beaten with a PLD so it renders this entire argument moot.

Even A3S is beaten with PLD and WAR btw I agree with u, tanks now are pretty balanced well

[Pr0c3ss0r]

So basically the op wants PLD to be the most optimal tank in all situations.

No...

PLD already has better mitigation than the other tanks with comparable single target dps

Slightly better mitigation on SINGLE target, less DPS than WAR.

you want PLD to also have comparable aoe damage as well? Can't we just accept PLD for what it is instead of trying to make all of the tanks the same?

Ok, can't we remove all defensive modification SE made on WAR since 2.0, so we can make all of the tanks not the same? (Do i sound silly now?) but is a fact my friend.

Giving AoE to PLD is not to make all tank the same, but to fix something that should have been fixed since 2.0, but it was never issued...

In 2.xx PLD was the preferred tank in just about every encounter because they are just the best at mitigating damage;

Not even TRUE.. Since when RAID group was using only 2 PLD? I am sorry, but every group was using PLD + WAR as it bring more utility and more DPS.

That 3.1 is out with the Alex Savage raids WAR and DRK are getting a shot in the lime light because of strict dps checks.

2.xx never had any massive multi-encounter where WAR defensive/offensive end to be way superior to PLD.
3.1 bring up the choice for your RAID group, PLD+WAR, PLD+DRK or WAR+DRK, it never been the case in 2.xx, and since PLD bring no AoE power plus no defensive advantage in multi-target, why people would go PLD + ___?

That's all there is to it. It's not a problem at all, it's just the way the content is right now.

Ya exact, i should just stop play PLD, and be more graceful. Work as intended.

PLD's were the kings all through 2.xx, just because PLD is no longer the absolute definitive choice right now, while we are at the near minimum ilv requirement for Savage mind you, doesn't mean PLD needs a buff. Give the other tanks a chance to be on top for once, PLD had all of 2.xx.

Wow, because people was not inviting WAR in T1-13, Sorry to tell you this, but in what world you were playing?

Remember 3.xx just started. I'm sure there will be content in the future of 3.xx that will shift the 'optimal' tank meta back towards PLD again.

I asked an AoE that is less powerful than DRK and WAR, i never asked PLD to be 'optimal' tank. You hate PLD is clear, and for you PLD can just die, i get it...

I suppose i take the problem the wrong way, and i should OPEN a new tread asking for WAR Nerf as they get more mitigation than PLD on multi-target. Please get real when someone is asking a simple change that is not messing up other Tank class, don't be a PLD hater.

[Gilthas]

Slightly better mitigation on SINGLE target, less DPS than WAR.

I love how one-sided your arguments are.

PLDs do 200 to 400% less AoE damage than WAR and DRK (your words, not mine) but then only have "slightly" better mitigation on single target, lol.

Now I'm not saying that PLDs have 200 to 400% better mitigation, but I think it's a few steps above "slightly".

[Isala]

I find it funny that as a Warrior Main, I'm fine with PLD buffs, but there's a wall of no coming from every direction. Paladin is no longer the king of defense everyone thinks it is. It actually loses HEAVILY in that category when there is magic damage involved. You can neither block, nor parry magical damage, which negates several CDs on all tanks, but also completely nullifies any use a Paladin gets out of their shield. In addition, Rage of Halone affects STR, not Int, while a Warrior lowers all damage by 10%, and a DRK lowers Int by 10%. I'd even go so far as to say they're hardly even the best physical tank anymore, with both DRK and WAR gaining access to parry based CDs, in the form of Dark Dance, and Raw Intuition, making Bulwark look sad in comparison. In the time it takes a PLD to get Bulwark back, a DRK has used Dark Dance 3 times, and a WAR has used Raw Intuition twice.

Oh, but what about raw defensive CDs, you say? Oh yes, the PLD's bread and butter. Good old Rampart, and Sentinel. 20% for 20 seconds of 90, and 40% for 10 seconds of 180. Looks like the DRK might lose, with 20% for 20 seconds of 90, and only 30% for 10 seconds of 180. Except, oh, wait. They get an ability that reduces all MAGICAL damage taken by 30% for 10 seconds of 60. Where's PLDs magical damage stopper? They don't get one. Even the Warrior has more uptime on their raw mitigation CDs. Inner Beast is 20% reduction for 6 seconds, and can be up almost every 20 seconds, if you don't use CDs to bring it up sooner. It also heals. And Vengeance is 30% for 15 seconds of 120, which also gives you a Wrath stack to use on... Guess what, Inner Beast. And, it acts as a damage reflect, which can be combined with Bloodbath for healing. WAR gets the superior version of that, too, lasting twice as long as a tank that crossclasses it.

Speaking of Bloodbath, let's compare the crossclass Tank CDs. Obviously, Bloodbath, which is 25% of all physical damage you do as a heal, for 15 seconds on a non-WAR, who gets it for 30. Awareness, which stops critical damage you take, gives a 10 second boost to PLD, being 25 seconds instead of 15. Convalescence is also 30% boost in healing on a PLD, compared to 20% for DRK or WAR, except simply by virtue of being a WAR in Defiance, the WAR already has a base 20% boost to all healing taken. There is also Foresight, which is a 90 second CD on a Warrior, rather than the 120 second CD on any other tank.

Those are the tank CDs that all tanks get a chance to share. DRK gets access to both WAR and PLD abilities, allowing them to take from both tanks. But what do WAR or PLD get? WAR gains MNK abilities, such as Internal release, to increase critical chance, something a WAR is already very fond of. They also get Second Wind, for a self heal, that while not as powerful as Equilibrium is still nothing to sneeze at. A PLD? Stuck with CNJ abilities. For the sake of discussion, I'm going to assume we all realize how useless Cure, Protect, or Raise are. Which leaves Stoneskin. Which is an okay CD. 10% of your HP in a barrier. It's alright. Something to take the edge off a hit. PLD does get a nice ability there. The cast time, on the other hand, suffers the same problem as Clemency. It's too long. In the time it takes you to cast it, you could easily be interrupted, since it's your face that's currently being beat on.

So, tell me again, how the PLD is the king of all things defense. Because yes, for a time, they were the Alpha, and Omega of Main Tanks. The undisputed champion of getting their face beat in. But fights are shifting. And the tanks themselves are shifting. Both WAR and DRK bring a fairly massive toolkit to the fight, especially in a magical damage environment, something the PLD is not equipped to deal with. There are AoE fights, on top of that. Again, something the PLD is not equipped to deal with. This talk of "The Paladin trades off AoE damage for being the best defensive tank" is not only wrong, it's sad. Because they are no longer the best defensive tank, not with the balancing that SE did in 3.0. But while both WAR and DRK got ways to deal with the upcoming raids, and how they were designed, PLD got more of the same. More ways to be a physical wall. And finally, a way to cause fairly decent damage. Both of those were a GOOD thing. But the one thing that a PLD is horribly, horribly bad at, AoE tanking, was left in the dust. That's why we are asking for a little bit of damage. A PLD doesn't have to compare to DRK and WAR. It has its niche. But to completely exclude it from doing any damage during an AoE intensive fight? That just seems like an oversight.

[Gilthas]

Convalescence is also 30% boost in healing on a PLD, compared to 20% for DRK or WAR, except simply by virtue of being a WAR in Defiance, the WAR already has a base 20% boost to all healing taken.

This is a very poor comparison to make as it completely ignores that both PLD and DRK in their respective tanking stances take less damage.

[Isala]

This is a very poor comparison to make as it completely ignores that both PLD and DRK in their respective tanking stances take less damage.

A WAR also has 25% more HP in their tank stance, and a stacking Parry buff. I'd say the two together equals the reduction in damage taken, even before the 20% boost in healing.

[Gilthas]

A WAR also has 25% more HP in their tank stance, and a stacking Parry buff. I'd say the two together equals the reduction in damage taken, even before the 20% boost in healing.

Lolno. There's a reason why the healing boost was taken away from Wrath stacks and added to Defiance.