Paladin need to be review.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

My static has been running WAR and DRK, probably going to clear A2 this sunday. DPS isn't a problem at all for us, but getting into position for the 4 Jagd doll wave, and the wave after (7 and 8?) requires them to be very precise with their mitigation to survive. I imagine a PLD would have an easier time.

You can imagine, but you and your group know that Goblin insanity only last for short amount of time where tank take absolutely ZERO dmg by time they are kill in time, and Paladin don't make that deal happen as easy since they can't perform well in multi-target damage.

WAR and DRK is the reason your group has no DPS problem. Many seem to forget that PLD have of course strongest CD, but the recast time is insane long, and they have absolutely no way to leech HP, and that enough to stress the healer by a huge factor.

Hallowed Ground is best Tank CD ever, but is 7 minute recast for a little 10 sec invincible. Sure that would be way superior if A2S had ONLY one massive wave to handle, but the fact is, A2S have 9~ Wave, and last 10 min long, so is good if you can use this once. (Unless you insist to use HG on the first 2 golin in the initial pull >.<)

Now i don't know if you ever tght about it, WAR in defiance have 25% MORE HP and 20% healing bonus, is the same as having Shield Oath active. (Of course is not working for lustrate, but do we really care? WAR with 5 wrath get 10% Crit + Internal release = 20% + they base Crit Rate, pop berserk and hello 6 to 11k HP return with Equilibrium then hello 2~4k HP with Second Wind, and that is every ~1 min >.>

So what else is left to compare?

Sentinel(40% for 10 sec) = 3 min recast, can be use 3 time max in A2S
Vengence(30% for 15 sec) = 2 min recast, can be use 5 time in A2S

Rampart(20% for 20 sec) = 1 min 30 Recast, can be use 6.5 time in A2S
Inner Beast (20% for 6 Sec) = 22.5 sec Recast, can be use 26x in A2S (And i am ignoring the FREE one you get every minute with Infuriate etc..)

Raw Intuition (Parry 100% for 20 sec) = 1 min 30 recast, can be use 6.5 time in A2S
Bulwark (Block increase by 60%... for 15 sec) = recast 3 min, can be use 3 time per A2S

Hallowed Ground (Invincible for 10 sec) = Recast 7 min, can be use once per A2S
Holmgang (HP can't go less than 1 HP for 6 sec) = Recast 3 min, can be use 3 time per A2S

Storm's Path is yet another 10% reduction on single target.
Rage of Halone, reduce STR by 10%, so is very similar by time monster is not magic.

Thrill of Battle, increase HP by 20% for 20 sec. (every 2 min)
There is Nothing like that on PLD.


So ya, if you pay attention to this, you figure quick that PLD have for fact stronger CD, but the recast time penalize them by a lots, and if they are constant active tanking, they are quickly left with zero CD.


Anyway, i never asked to FIX PLD Deffense/Recast time, i can deal with that part, but the lack of AoE DMG make the job feel totally rubbish, like there is no "DEFFENSE" superiority in trade of low DMG, that is mega false statement that people keep bring back.

[Terribad]

So if I understood the OP right, they want more aoe damage for paladins?

Each class is different (VERY SLIGHTLY) paladins are not aoe/damage tanks. In no mmo I've played was the paladin a damage/aoe type tank. There's different classes for different reasons. Why does everyone have to be the same? You want aoe/damage? Go Drk/War. You want block and mitigation? Go Paladin.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

So if I understood the OP right, they want more aoe damage for paladins?

Each class is different (VERY SLIGHTLY) paladins are not aoe/damage tanks. In no mmo I've played was the paladin a damage/aoe type tank. There's different classes for different reasons. Why does everyone have to be the same? You want aoe/damage? Go Drk/War. You want block and mitigation? Go Paladin.

Remove the Flash resist would also fix the issue, so we can be back "superior" DEFENSIVE tank with lack of AoE DMG.

Each class have to be different, i cannot disagree with that. But if the difference prevent you from clearing content, just because the JOB is not suited for it, then sorry but there is a big problem.

It use to be true that PLD has superior defense, but is not that case in A2S, not even close to be the case, and i explained why in previous post.

[Terribad]

Remove the Flash resist would also fix the issue, so we can be back "superior" DEFENSIVE tank with lack of AoE DMG.

Removing flash resist or lowering the resist works as well. I feel like people in this community don't know how to ask for proper changes, adjustments. It's mainly "Nerf this to the ground please" or "Make my job exactly like x job please".

[Pr0c3ss0r]

Removing flash resist or lowering the resist works as well. I feel like people in this community don't know how to ask for proper changes, adjustments. It's mainly "Nerf this to the ground please" or "Make my job exactly like x job please".

Giving Flash an AoE dmg would instant fix the issue for now and later on (is not like SE will ever make monster RESIST dmg)

or

Changing Shield Swipe for a Conal attack, would also fix the problem, the more monster you tank, the more DPS you can do in return, and the more enmity you can generate.

Edit: Give me 1 good reason that PLD should generate they enmity without any DMG dealt? (while flash is resisted) and don't forget the fact that we get 2.5sec penalty that prevent us to do any kind of dmg. (the penalty return is very absurd)

[Isala]

In no mmo I've played was the paladin a damage/aoe type tank.

Actually, in WoW, Paladin was a very, VERY good AoE damage tank. They had AoEs to put on the floor, AoEs that radiated from the paladin, and had a multi-target Shield Lob. It would hit three targets. They even had an AoE stance, that would allow any single target melee attack to splash onto any nearby targets. They also had a massive set of tank CDs to pull from, including one that made you invincible, like Hallowed Ground. So, yes. AoE Paladins have definitely been a thing, and I wish that Paladins here would have had at least ONE spam AoE spell that did damage.

[Terribad]

Limit soz.

In no mmo I've played was the paladin a damage/aoe type tank.

I wouldn't consider what I did in WoW to be actually "playing it". Raf'd to lvl 80 in 17 hours, exactly.

Give me 1 good reason that PLD should generate they enmity without any DMG dealt? (while flash is resisted) and don't forget the fact that we get 2.5sec penalty that prevent us to do any kind of dmg. (the penalty return is very absurd)

Simple, SE obviously doesn't want PLDs as aoe damage types. Every needs to stop going "Oh x got that so I should get that too" please leave the differences in the jobs. Everything else already feels the same with different skins. I think instead of asking for PLD to be just like everyone else, ask for better defensive buffs/defensive. I feel PLD should defensive Gods, yet for some reason they feel squisher than WARs.

[Isala]

I think instead of asking for PLD to be just like everyone else, ask for better defensive buffs/defensive. I feel PLD should defensive Gods, yet for some reason they feel squisher than WARs.

See, that's what we're getting at. The skill set we gained in HW was to shore up the weaknesses that every class had, but the biggest weakness for PLD, their lack of AoE, was not something we had fixed. They gained more single target DPS, yes, but they didn't gain a single AoE ability.

[Aldora]

Raw Intuition (Parry 100% for 20 sec) = 1 min 30 recast, can be use 6.5 time in A2S
Bulwark (Block increase by 60%... for 15 sec) = recast 3 min, can be use 3 time per A2S

Don't forget that the Paladin has Sheltron as well, which Blocks the next physical attack for 10 seconds with a 30 second cooldown.

Each class have to be different, i cannot disagree with that. But if the difference prevent you from clearing content, just because the JOB is not suited for it, then sorry but there is a big problem.

When a Paladin doesn't deal "proper" AoE damage, doesn't mean it's not suited for the Job.

The point of being a tank is to divert the attention of a mob from the rest of the group, so that the damage is mainly focused on the Tank. And that's exactly what a Paladin, Warrior and Dark Knight does. How they go about it varies per class. Every Class has it's own strengths and weaknesses. For the Paladin it's weakness is a lack of dealing AoE damage, but it gets a great defense in return. But, that specific kind of play style suits me perfectly.

Giving flash damage is just... Wierd. The skill is meant for blinding the opponent for a short amount of time, while generating hate. It's like shining a flashlight in someone's eyes. It doesn't physically hurt anyone. So, why should Flash suddenly deal damage? Because we can't get passed a dps check? Or that Paladin's had a harder time keeping hate?

People are focusing way too much on the DPS checks in my opinion. Yes, we all need to push ourselves to the limit and squeeze out every single dps digit we possibly can. However, people have already cleared A2S with the classes as they are, so it is possible. Yes, i play a Paladin as well and i see that i'm having more difficulty keeping hate on a group of enemies, when i compare myself to a Warrior.

But, if we aren't able to copy their achievements, then shouldn't we look as ourselves as see what we are doing wrong, rather then complaining that a Paladin doesn't deal enough AoE damage?

Sure, we all want to beat it. But, from my perspective, this is getting silly...

I mean, Alexander Savage was released while the max iLevel you could get was 189. The raid drops iLevel 210 gear and we can save up Tomes for iLevel 200 gear.

This is not what people will want to hear, but... If we can't clear it with our current composition and gear, we need to train more while getting better gear. Eventually we too are able to clear the content.

Other players have been able to clear A2 Savage within the first few days of it's release. So, it's possible. But it's sure as hell not going to be easy.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

For the Paladin it's weakness is a lack of dealing AoE damage, but it gets a great defense in return.

On what you base that argument, i am curious? Flash is resisted, so don't even count on it to defend you. Compare to other class that can AoE DPS + leech HP, how PLD even match that? PLD have Clemency, how that is even possible to use against multi-target?

Please elaborate your sentence, because i don't even see how PLD have greater defense against multi-target encounter.

Nothing prevent war to use Equilibrium for 6~11k HP restore, and is OFF GCD, so is Second Wind, WAR defensive cool down recast are way faster. But ya, please explain me how PLD have stronger defense, because i don't see 1 solid argument plausible.

For the Paladin it's weakness is a lack of dealing AoE damage + lack of AoE defense. it gets a great defense in return.

That is more correct.

People are focusing way too much on the DPS checks in my opinion.

Tell that to Yoshi, not to me. I never asked to be in a DPS rush to stay alive. More DPS turn out into LESS damage taken, is not a complex system. With bloodbath, the more DPS you do, the more HP you get back, is a simple mechanic and every JOB except PLD can take advantage of multi-target.

Don't forget that the Paladin has Sheltron as well, which Blocks the next physical attack for 10 seconds with a 30 second cooldown.

Please. tell me you where not serious with this... 10 second maybe, but is only 1 block guaranteed, is a joke with 5 monster on you. Any small difference count, but, please don't compare that with longer Raw Intuition effect + quicker recast + 100% guaranteed. This isnt serious. I mean, nice it return MP so we can flash more for 0 DMG, and fail to cast more Clemency.


In revenge, make Shield Swipe a Cone attack, and Sheltron would make a real difference on multi-target, so is for Bulwark.