Paladin need to be review.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

A1 savage handicaps Ast, I agree. We would have done better with SCH/WHM, but I think a large part of THAT problem was my group itself. We won the fight with (At the time) the highest parse in A1 on the server from week 1. Our ast did Zero DPS, but the WHM did 400ish. The WHM was under the impression because the AST did zero DPS, he had to compensate, which is nonsense. Our group DPS was so high (Thanks largely in part to the AST) that the WHM could just focus on healing, and when he did; we won with ease! There is something to be said of the player base not understanding the role AST has in endgame yet, because until we all got into the mentality that AST is the 'DPS healer' even though they parse zero; we had a hard time with one. Just my 2 cents as a tank who has done/continues to do savage with an AST. She's primarily healing me. In Deliverance, because real warriors don't tank in defiance!

[tjw]

Theoretically and in practicality, AST's buffs do NOT increase a group's DPS enough to warrant the loss of the other utility of either a WHM or a SCH. The perfect scenario for an AST's Draw is an Expanded Balance every minute, however, that's debatable to whether it is strong enough to beat Selene, especially since the cards are so heavily RNG based.

Would you rather 15 seconds of +5% damage every minute unreliably, or 30 seconds of +3% attack speed every minute reliably? I would take the more reliable source, especially since SCH can easily DPS AND that attack speed benefits healer and tank roles, not just DPS.

I agree with you on one point. AST is not a 'DPS healer'. It is a support healer. However, the buffs an AST can give are far too inconsequential, mainly in part to the RNG nature of the cards and that the cards themselves are too weak. The devs had seemingly balanced the cards under the basis that you would be getting the perfect draw every time. But you don't. There are plenty of other reasons for why you have had 'the highest parse' on your server. Maybe your actual DPS players may just 'that good'. But an AST's cards are NOT able to make your DPS superb.

However, lets make this clear. AST's first and foremost role is a healer, plain and simple. And that's where AST falls back compared to WHM and SCH.

Your WHM is both correct and incorrect. They didn't compensate for the AST's lack of DPS. They did however compensate for AST's sub-par healing capacity.

AST's have no abilities that actively increase their healing output on a single target. They have 2 limited abilities to help with shared damage; Synastry and Lightspeed, both of which are arguably pathetic for what they do. Almost all their utility is far outstripped by anything a WHM or SCH has.

Lightspeed is pathetic compared to Presence of Mind.
Synastry is pathetic compared to a SCH's PERMANENT Synastry in the form of the faerie.
Disable is the unwanted cousin of Supervirus.
Essential Dignity is the only one that can challenge its counterparts of Lustrate and Tetra, but ONLY when your target is low enough HP.
Collective Unconscious is notorious amongst the healer community for its absolute garbage benefit in Nocturnal Sect, and only slightly more redeemable in Diurnal Sect, compared to Sacred Soil and Asylum.

And AST's lack of any healing throughput increases is appalling.

ASTs have no equivalent of Divine Seal or Rouse/Fey Illumination/Dissipation.
ASTs have no equivalent of Assize or Indomitability.
ASTs have no equivalent Cure III or Deployment Tactics.

About the only 'unique' abilites AST have are Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition, one of which is pathetically useless in Nocturnal & only increase healing slightly in Diurnal (By letting your HoTs tick 15 secs longer...every 90 seconds) and the other which is pathetic for its cooldown and level attainment.

Essentially, an AST's lvl 60 toolkit is equivalent to that of a WHM/SCH's lvl 50 toolkit. Imagine a BLM DPSing without Enochian, or a DRG without BotD. Capable of content, but vastly handicapped compared to other options.

In conclusion, if your party is able to DPS and clear Savage as well as they are now with an AST, I can guarantee that they will do it better with a SCH.

And that's where my previous post comes from.

AST vs content is not the problem.
AST vs WHM/SCH is the main problem.

Your AST hasn't levelled up WHM or SCH, but I can guarantee that she will feel a major difference in the ease and usefulness of WHM and SCH compared to AST if she did, at almost no detriment - and rather, an increase - to her contribution in progression.

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Why are we even discussing AST in a PLD topic?

I personally feel that PLD is fine where it is in terms of its role as a mitigation tank. There are, however, issues I've heard from my FC's PLDs about the lack of 'excitement' of reaching lvl 60 as one.

[NFaelivrin]

Again, people attempting to assess any job based on content designed for 10+ average item levels from where most people are now cannot and should not be taken with great weight. Look at my Lodestone profile if you want, my point stands all the same. People are freezing out Astrologians and other jobs based on this nonsense and it needs to stop.

It's a bit of a shame you only came back to repeat yourself instead of addressing my points about PLD's weaknesses, which you smugly referred to as "total rubbish". Frankly I don't think you should be having such strong opinions on endgame raiding when its clear from your lodestone you don't even participate in it.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

You say that.. But having actually done the content with an AST, their healing capability don't feel inferior, their support if used right is pretty notable (We finished our first A2 on week 2 with 40 seconds to spare. most groups barely squeak by with a win) But yes, this is a paladin whine thread.


Paladin are fine. Theres a reason why most groups take them over a dark knight in terms of progression. The only rational complaint for Paladin is that Clemency cast time is too long and interrupt-able.

[ElieDavion]

paladin is fine as it is. the only thing id like to adress is divine veil dear healers a fairy heal or a regen doesnt trigger its shield so pls use a direct heal if i go through the trouble already to macro it with a sound that you wont miss the buff

[Blank0022]

I dont know if this makes sense, but to me, why would paladin need more aoe dmg? Flash and CoS work fine. You are a paladin with HIGH def cds. You are not a warrior who needs to do dmg to leech life to make up for less def.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

and this is a game where a person can be multiple jobs on one character. If you think warriors are this magical nirvana of just perfect everything.... then... play a warrior. You'll find your equally ineffective on one tank just the same as any other if you're the kind of person who sits around complaining nonstop.

[Freyyy]

Right. As someone who actually tanks in Savage Alexander, I can tell you for a FACT paladin mitigation is worlds ahead of warriors.

It's not "worlds ahead". It's a bit superior and safer yeah. But not "worlds ahead" lol. And PLDs are not required for A3S for instance it's even the contrary. It's required having DRK/WAR in order to beat the DPS check because for instance we are heavily undergeared for it. Or at least it was until everyone got their 200 weapon. Still don't know about what it is now.

In some situations, WAR's mitigation uptime can be more efficient than a PLD's. As a WAR back in before 3.0, in T13 I switched from OT to MT once we got it on farm to get more deeps from SwO PLD. Healers were pretty surprised to see that they had an easier time dealing with me than with PLD for the simple reason that I can IB every single flare breath where the PLD always takes full damage and keeps its CDs for tank busters. As WAR I was able to IB every single flare breath AND using CDs to mitigate busters ON TOP of IB. If you really think PLDs mitigation is "worlds ahead" WAR, you're completely wrong. PLD is just safer during progression and easier to master. Tho it's still a freaking good tank and doesn't really need to be improved.

[CosmicKirby]

Snip for Char count

The loot system for Alex Savage is basically designed to last for at least 2 months already. You need 8 tokens from the last turn to get a guaranteed piece of loot, that's 8 weekly resets. Even if only a small group of statics can complete them ASAP, I doubt the vast majority of the raiding community will have absolutely no reason to raid Alex Savage by 3.1.
It's assumed that if the content is in the game, it's designed to be possibly obtainable and beaten, better gear and iLevels just lowers the barrier for entry significantly.
Stares at Dusk Leather

Snip

My static has been running WAR and DRK, probably going to clear A2 this sunday. DPS isn't a problem at all for us, but getting into position for the 4 Jagd doll wave, and the wave after (7 and 8?) requires them to be very precise with their mitigation to survive. I imagine a PLD would have an easier time.

[Hieral]

Could use an enmity buff. The enmity generation of similar moves is terrible compared to WAR and DRK.