[SUGGESTION] LIMIT POINT / MERIT POINT SYSTEM

[OMEGA_HACK]

Yes its another thread about Merit points, however, I won't post in an already active suggestion thread because I'd feel like it would be high-jacking someone else's suggestion so that out of the way, I hope you are ready to read! (I'm not kidding its a lot of information but you can skim through it I suppose since not all the jobs will pertain to everyone) At the very least enjoy, and let me know what you think below!


Okay now that the introduction is out of the way let's get into the meat of this suggestion. MERIT POINTS. Lots of people want them, including myself, to be able to create different builds of the same job depending on a play style that most fits you personally. Even if people build the same build so be it, at least its dare I say it--not mandatory for you to build to a certain spec. One thing I'd like to point out, the the document shared in the link below there is a group that has the cross class abilities, when merited those increases will be able to be utilized on ANY job/class that can equip those abilities, not just the class that learns it naturally. All the other abilities that appear within the confines of the job section of the document (even if said ability in that section is a cross-class ability) it will only be increases to the class/job that learns the ability naturally.

Finally, a note on how it would work:

It would function similar to Final Fantasy XI's merit system where you would switch to Limit Points instead of Experience Points when you reach the level cap. From you would need to kill experience yielding monsters for your limit points, however this is where it would differ from XI's. Instead of converting EXP into LP. Limit Points would be gained based on kill count of experience yielding monsters. Both in Dungeons and in the Open World areas, Fates included. For Crafters and Gatherers this would be based on a combination successful of HQ and NQ crafts/gathers.

Let me give an example:

Normal level 60 monster would yield a level 60 player 400EXP, while under Merit it would gain 1LP. It would take 100LP to get your first merit (this is just a number im making up at the top of my head) or basically 100 EXP yielding Monster KOs.

For gathering you would need to completely harvest an EXP yielding node to gain 1LP and 100LP would get you your first merit.

For crafting you would need to craft 1HQ and 50NQ EXP yielding items to get 1LP and 100LP to get your first merit.

Of course those are just quick numbers I made up so they would need to be evaluated first to find a nice balance as there are A LOT of merit options! Needless to say I've prattled on long enough, so here is the link; enjoy!

CLICK FOR GOOGLE.DOC LINK

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

I feel like the system would be pretty cool, It would be similar to the talent tree thing WoW has with it's new artifact weapons.

[Wobi]

The only real issue is over time this will create a rather wide gap between new and older players, it's fairly well thought out and like FFXI I imagine they'd set it to where you cannot cap out everything. I'm not against the idea on principal but there will be consequences, even if unintended.

[Gilthas]

I'm in favor of giving us a way to improve our characters at level cap by gaining experience points instead of just by upgrading gear. But instead of giving us a bunch of false choices where inevitably there will always be only 1 right choice, let players cap everything.

Just keep the bonuses small so veteran players and new players aren't far apart.

[Hayward]

Only problem with this is we all know the bean-counters, whose primary function in life is to suck the life out of life, will determine the "most efficient" skills and the sheep will follow.

[Bishop81]

Would be nice but we all know it's not going to happen.

As Hayward mentioned, min-maxers will ruin everyone's fun with their "optimal builds" and raid groups will start demanding you have this and that ... Raiders will then cry about the "mandatory chores" that is getting those cross-class skills - even though it's they themselves that impose the requirements.

Look we don't even have stuff like elemental resistance on gear or weapons that do elemental damage. The reason for this is so min-maxing raiders won't deem it "mandatory" to farm the gear.

SE is so afraid of raider tears that they won't even allow the possibility of farming gear and you think they will have players farm points for skills?

[Daranion]

You're all so quick to blame raiders and min maxers when Square themselves have said these type of things would be too complex for their generally low skilled playerbase. It's too confusing and even our classes as they are, with a very set rotation that anyone can read up on and get good at? Too difficult for the average person. You have to keep in mind the lowest common denominators, can't have anything with too many options or numbers. That's the real reason why we don't have TP bars. They found that having a TP bar was jsut an extra set of numbers and caused some of their test base to completely lose focus on what they were doing. You want to add a system of various choices now, choices that would inevitably end up with someones feelings getting hurt when they put everything into all elemental resistances? There's no way, it would never happen unless you babyproof it. Take it back to the drawing board, make it impossible to mess up, and then we'll see it having a chance of being added

[OMEGA_HACK]

You're all so quick to blame raiders and min maxers when Square themselves have said these type of things would be too complex for their generally low skilled playerbase. It's too confusing and even our classes as they are, with a very set rotation that anyone can read up on and get good at? Too difficult for the average person. You have to keep in mind the lowest common denominators, can't have anything with too many options or numbers. That's the real reason why we don't have TP bars. They found that having a TP bar was jsut an extra set of numbers and caused some of their test base to completely lose focus on what they were doing. You want to add a system of various choices now, choices that would inevitably end up with someones feelings getting hurt when they put everything into all elemental resistances? There's no way, it would never happen unless you babyproof it. Take it back to the drawing board, make it impossible to mess up, and then we'll see it having a chance of being added

I'm sorry but I am a bit confused at your statement. It appears to be tossed at the general idea of making unique/complex things but abruptly is saying to take it back to the drawing board, as if you were talking about my suggestion in particular?

However, to maybe clear up a bit of confusion you mention people will put everything into elemental resistances. But that would be impossible as you may note in the document I provided that you would only be able to put 24 Merit points in the category of "Elemental Resistances" thats not saying "you picked Elemental Resistances now you cannot put merits into Damage Reductions. No quite the opposite, each "Category" if you will (they are separate by the black bars) has its own cap on how many merits you can put into that category.

To the min-max statements: If you are letting a min-max person ruin the game for you then honestly it would be no ones fault but your own, there would be no way for a player to be able to /checkmerits on another player so it would be up to that player to disclose what merits they have chosen. So I cannot see anyone saying "You don't have critical hit rate capped you cannot party with us" as the increases are not ground breaking, they merely give a slight edge, one where only someone with a parser might notice and far more people do not play with a parser (or at least openly acknowledge it) in a DF group.

Just my thoughts as I was making this merit spreadsheet in foresight of those very 'problems'.

[Shougun]

I like the idea of customization but I would greatly prefer not to see a system that builds like a Merit system unless the building is trivial (grinding portion is limited). Would prefer a highly mobile system that allows you to play your way and play their way. Wait what, play their way? Yes, as we all know it will happen and be very nearly required for certain content. While SE may try their darndest and make a few valid builds most will be invalid, because we all know why (there may be some real choice but of course the best options will make most choices "bad" or "false" choices when required to put out).

Which is why I kind of like the whole slotting ability system (fast easy reference would be D3 passives and runes). Bunch of wrong choices that are fun and viable outside of end content, and then a select number (mostly made valid by gear abilities) setups end game, but you are not punished for choosing one rune over another in any long term scenario.

Nice work into the document, felt a few were better trees than another but I get that it was a thought out example rather than an iron template. As an aside on that, I like the color choices... xD

[Hayward]

Decent points

Don't get me wrong. I'm not speaking in opposition to the idea. I'm just laying out the reality if such an idea came to be.

In any case, I'd probably wait for the level cap to get to 70 or thereabouts to implement a limit point system. That should be enough time for the devs to flesh out each job and determine what bonuses to give each job.