[SUGGESTION] LIMIT POINT / MERIT POINT SYSTEM

[OMEGA_HACK]

You're all so quick to blame raiders and min maxers when Square themselves have said these type of things would be too complex for their generally low skilled playerbase. It's too confusing and even our classes as they are, with a very set rotation that anyone can read up on and get good at? Too difficult for the average person. You have to keep in mind the lowest common denominators, can't have anything with too many options or numbers. That's the real reason why we don't have TP bars. They found that having a TP bar was jsut an extra set of numbers and caused some of their test base to completely lose focus on what they were doing. You want to add a system of various choices now, choices that would inevitably end up with someones feelings getting hurt when they put everything into all elemental resistances? There's no way, it would never happen unless you babyproof it. Take it back to the drawing board, make it impossible to mess up, and then we'll see it having a chance of being added

I'm sorry but I am a bit confused at your statement. It appears to be tossed at the general idea of making unique/complex things but abruptly is saying to take it back to the drawing board, as if you were talking about my suggestion in particular?

However, to maybe clear up a bit of confusion you mention people will put everything into elemental resistances. But that would be impossible as you may note in the document I provided that you would only be able to put 24 Merit points in the category of "Elemental Resistances" thats not saying "you picked Elemental Resistances now you cannot put merits into Damage Reductions. No quite the opposite, each "Category" if you will (they are separate by the black bars) has its own cap on how many merits you can put into that category.

To the min-max statements: If you are letting a min-max person ruin the game for you then honestly it would be no ones fault but your own, there would be no way for a player to be able to /checkmerits on another player so it would be up to that player to disclose what merits they have chosen. So I cannot see anyone saying "You don't have critical hit rate capped you cannot party with us" as the increases are not ground breaking, they merely give a slight edge, one where only someone with a parser might notice and far more people do not play with a parser (or at least openly acknowledge it) in a DF group.

Just my thoughts as I was making this merit spreadsheet in foresight of those very 'problems'.

[Hayward]

Decent points

Don't get me wrong. I'm not speaking in opposition to the idea. I'm just laying out the reality if such an idea came to be.

In any case, I'd probably wait for the level cap to get to 70 or thereabouts to implement a limit point system. That should be enough time for the devs to flesh out each job and determine what bonuses to give each job.

[Bishop81]

You're all so quick to blame raiders and min maxers when Square themselves have said these type of things would be too complex for their generally low skilled playerbase. It's too confusing and even our classes as they are, with a very set rotation that anyone can read up on and get good at? Too difficult for the average person. You have to keep in mind the lowest common denominators, can't have anything with too many options or numbers. That's the real reason why we don't have TP bars. They found that having a TP bar was jsut an extra set of numbers and caused some of their test base to completely lose focus on what they were doing. You want to add a system of various choices now, choices that would inevitably end up with someones feelings getting hurt when they put everything into all elemental resistances? There's no way, it would never happen unless you babyproof it. Take it back to the drawing board, make it impossible to mess up, and then we'll see it having a chance of being added

Oh please. Old school 2D Final Fantasy has elemental resistances, weapons that do elemental damage, ... etc. it wasn't rocket surgery back then, it isn't now.

Players handled it just fine. You act like raiders are the only ones that can do simple algebra.

[Shougun]

I like the idea of customization but I would greatly prefer not to see a system that builds like a Merit system unless the building is trivial (grinding portion is limited). Would prefer a highly mobile system that allows you to play your way and play their way. Wait what, play their way? Yes, as we all know it will happen and be very nearly required for certain content. While SE may try their darndest and make a few valid builds most will be invalid, because we all know why (there may be some real choice but of course the best options will make most choices "bad" or "false" choices when required to put out).

Which is why I kind of like the whole slotting ability system (fast easy reference would be D3 passives and runes). Bunch of wrong choices that are fun and viable outside of end content, and then a select number (mostly made valid by gear abilities) setups end game, but you are not punished for choosing one rune over another in any long term scenario.

Nice work into the document, felt a few were better trees than another but I get that it was a thought out example rather than an iron template. As an aside on that, I like the color choices... xD

[Daranion]

Perhaps you perceived my initial post as hostile. I would like to say I would love if they added any sort of system to further character advancement especially if it added more diversity and uniqueness. The point of my post was, as far as choices go, it's still too complex. AS I'm assuming there would be a limit to points earned? Or is it strictly a "Earn as many points as you want but the categories are point capped. Also a few abilities seem rather useless or just fluff compared to others but as they're for the most part in separate categories, it can't be too bad. I still it's lacking a certain something, and knowing Squares desire to keep things as simple as possible, you know if it gets implemented Square would make sure that feeling of it lacking somethign would be even worse than it is now. Such is the nature of pandering to the lowest skilled and those with the least desire to inform or improve

[Alberel]

Some kind of alternative advancement system at the level cap is sorely needed, whether that's merit points as in FFXI or something else.

Rift had a nice system for this. Once at the cap your xp would start going towards 'planar attunement' which allowed you to spend XP on increasing stats on a branching grid. Players would start in the centre and could spend XP to move along a given branch. Each branch focused on a specific stat with some unique extra perks later on like +1% crit chance, +1% damage to a specific enemy type, etc. Each point got more and more expensive the further out they got. Eventually it would be possible to earn every point on the board but it would take a very very very long time. The bonuses were also very small so there wasn't a huge disparity between new and old players.

[Bishop81]

Some kind of alternative advancement system at the level cap is sorely needed, whether that's merit points as in FFXI or something else

Alternate advancement system is definitely needed.

Currently all we get is advancement via gear giving a flat power increase.

It's boring because we have no say in the matter, no choices to make in what gear to get, it's get gear or don't get gear.

Also the methods of acquisition ... there are tomes/seals, dungeons, and raids. The latter 2 can bring you into contact with the most toxic players in the game. They don't like "noobs" that didn't read up the equivalent of GameFAQs before entering the dungeon and we don't like their taunts and lecturing.

It's the same thing patch after patch. We are like hamsters on a hamster wheel.

[Daranion]

Bishop, I'm not the one saying it would be too complicated. That's all on Square. I'm saying Square keeps things complicated because the fan base in general is pretty... well. they're stupid. At least the most vocal ones. I kid you not, the reason we don't have TP bars? Yeah too confusing because there's too many numbers. The reason the spells aren't called Fira Firaga Firaja in English but they are in Japan? Too confusing for the average player. Everytime we have something added thats simple to the point of being rediculous? BEcause otherwse it'd be too hard for the average player. So the point behind my original comment in the thread? Don't blame raiders for the lock of variety. Blame the average player being too stupid. And thats somewhat straight from Square. I say somewhat because they would never ca;ll their users stupid. That's just me venting my frustration over no TP bars because testers found it too confusing

[Bishop81]

Bishop, I'm not the one saying it would be too complicated. That's all on Square. I'm saying Square keeps things complicated because the fan base in general is pretty... well. they're stupid. At least the most vocal ones. I kid you not, the reason we don't have TP bars? Yeah too confusing because there's too many numbers. The reason the spells aren't called Fira Firaga Firaja in English but they are in Japan? Too confusing for the average player.

...

The Final Fantasy series has always been "easy".

FFX was easy, you can play thought the whole thing without knowing what heck you are doing and get to the end - first hand experience. Yet, it has depth if you are willing to look.

With FFXIV, there is nothing.

"Too confusing for the average player" ... yet the said average player has to memorize a wiki page of information in order to kill a raid boss. Multiple pages of memorization for the entire raid. Granted you just need a good memory, analytical capability being optional. I really don't see how this is better for the average player as you are just trading "thinking" for "rote memorization" - making it boring at that.

PS: I have no idea what you are going on about with "TP bars" since we do have TP ... not the kind you are looking for?