Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[RiceisNice]

It's not any less fluid just because you can't double oGCD. You don't double oGCD on MNK either. Say IR and Elixir Field come off CD at the same time. You still use 1 between each GCD or you're delaying GCDs. Same applies to some of the other jobs. Just because 2.0 BRD could easily double oGCD doesn't mean 3.0 BRD w/ WM up isn't as fluid because of only being able to use 1 oGCD between each GCD outside of Straighter Shot procs.

Except monk doesn't have a oGCD that can reset its cooldown, or any other job for that matter except for dork knight. It's that weaving and being reactive to procs (whether it be straight shot or bloodletter resets) that got me engaged with bard's 2.0 gameplay. Now I can't do either because of how cast times poorly interact with those designs. If that wasn't the intent of bard's gameplay, then pray tell what were they trying to do when they introduced MCH to be competing for BRD's slot? I'd like to pick between the two based on play-style preferences, but the addition of WM/GB practically forces them to have the same template and gameplay.

I agree with that. Although, I tend to just delay the second BL to tack it on at the end of the HS just to get the GCD rolling or if I know I'd need to move in the next 3 secs. Honest question: is that a significant amount of DPS loss over another option?

Losing a 150 potency skill because you delayed it isn't something you'd want to do, huge dps loss or not. Especially when most boss encounters in the game allow you to multi-dot. It just doesn't feel right to go against the original design of the class (which I don't mind if they had a gameplay change, but this isn't the case when they'd just tack on WM the way it is).

[RinchanNau]

There is nothing particularly more engaging about 2.0 BRD compared to 3.0. All you do is press BL between every single GCD always. 3.0 BRD requires more thought in that regard. So you could call that more engaging in a way.

[RiceisNice]

There is nothing particularly more engaging about 2.0 BRD compared to 3.0. All you do is press BL between every single GCD always. 3.0 BRD requires more thought in that regard. So you could call that more engaging in a way.

Or it's less engaging because I don't have to watch for straighter shot procs anymore, namely because I can't catch it without delaying my weaponskill. I'd disagree with it requiring more thought as well. But at this point we're literally splitting hairs and opinions. I don't like WM because it works against part of bard's core traits in 2.0, and because of that it play's extremely clumsy for me compared to MCH (who also has the same gameplay because of GB and WM being functionally the same)

[Snowaeth]

It's not any less fluid just because you can't double oGCD. You don't double oGCD on MNK either. Say IR and Elixir Field come off CD at the same time. You still use 1 between each GCD or you're delaying GCDs. Same applies to some of the other jobs. Just because 2.0 BRD could easily double oGCD doesn't mean 3.0 BRD w/ WM up isn't as fluid because of only being able to use 1 oGCD between each GCD outside of Straighter Shot procs.

Bard has way more buffs to align for their rotation than any other class. Delaying any buffs will get them misaligned for the rest of the fight, delaying them enough times will mess up phase transitions. This forces you to either not use up BL and use a buff and miss out on BL proc chance, use BL+buff and cut into GCD, Use BL and not the buff and miss-align your buffs (do this multiple times for a misaligned rotation for the rest of the fight). All options are bad in their own way, one more than the other.

Actually, your post has more of an aggressive tone than mine. Significantly more. In fact, it has this tone of superiority that assumes anyone you're conversing with is a lesser being simply for disagreeing.

Yea it's been beaten to death and everyone is sick of hearing it or discussing it. All the horse beating isn't changing anything.

Repelling shot: I've never had an issue with it. Use it then wait a fraction of a second. Cast is not interrupted.

Straight Shot proc: You're not using the proc for the crit? How is it different from 2.0? You SS when it falls off then go to Heavy. Heavy procs right away and you have to SS again even though you just used it.

You can read between the lines all you want and make me or the tone of my words to be however you want them to be.
It doesn't change anything about the points I'm presenting and frankly enough this is not a discussion about my tone or me, so I will follow your advice and ignore the flaw of this discussion and continue on with the actual bard issues like I would with my rotation.

You never had an issue with Repelling shot, yet QUOTE: "Use it then wait a fraction of a second." you are working around something that has no issue?

As for Straight Shot it is not the same as pre 3.0 due to cast times.
You use heavy shot as a filler majority of the fight, if you use HS before you have to re-apply SS then start to re-apply SS the possible proc from HS will happen during the cast of SS.
At this point you will fire an SS and have an SS proc right there.
Now the next thing you would usually do is cast another HS after SS, but now you are forced to use the SS first in case the HS would proc the SS, so you can't hold on to the SS for a convenient time.
This means you just refreshed the SS buff and use up SS proc right after it basically making that first SS a waste of tp and dps.
To top it off if you used HS, HS which is not uncommon, you will miss the proc from the first HS and if the 2nd one proc'd SS too you would miss an SS proc.
Why is this a WM issue and not a pre 3.0 issue, because instant casts allowed enough time to react to your proc's unlike cast times that don't.

[Ferrasper]

Or it's less engaging because I don't have to watch for straighter shot procs anymore, namely because I can't catch it without delaying my weaponskill. I'd disagree with it requiring more thought as well. But at this point we're literally splitting hairs and opinions. I don't like WM because it works against part of bard's core traits in 2.0, and because of that it play's extremely clumsy for me compared to MCH (who also has the same gameplay because of GB and WM being functionally the same)

I find MCH less fluid and more clumsy due to the 1,2,3 RNG of it. Not to mention I find Brd more engaging to play.

[Lyaha]

And while you're at it remove all cast times for BLM and let us cast Fire IV without Enochain.

You picked the class that had the cast times, WE DIDN'T, get that through your skull!

[Ferrasper]

You picked the class that had the cast times, WE DIDN'T, get that through your skull!

1.45sec isn't much of a cast though. Besides, they went with the idea I have always wanted them to do. Bards are more Sniper like now instead of running and gunning AR users.

[RinchanNau]

Or it's less engaging because I don't have to watch for straighter shot procs anymore, namely because I can't catch it without delaying my weaponskill. I'd disagree with it requiring more thought as well. But at this point we're literally splitting hairs and opinions. I don't like WM because it works against part of bard's core traits in 2.0, and because of that it play's extremely clumsy for me compared to MCH (who also has the same gameplay because of GB and WM being functionally the same)

Your oGCD usage most definitely requires more thought and attention in 3.0 w/ Minuet. When we go back to 2.0 BRD style it's always buff + BL, Flaming Arrow + BL, Blunt Arrow + BL, Repelling Shot + BL. There's more of an oGCD priority system required when Minuet is up. I'm not going to argue which is better. But I like having to swap between the two and playing both styles in the new savage encounters as well as the primals. Granted it's about 95% Minuet uptime which it seems you're not a fan of. Guess there's always 4.0. Who knows what changes will come then?

[Lyaha]

1.45sec isn't much of a cast though. Besides, they went with the idea I have always wanted them to do. Bards are more Sniper like now instead of running and gunning AR users.

Well guess what, that's what you got Machinist for, this skillset wasn't suppose work to work cast times, and it shows, the playstyle is dreadful.

[Ferrasper]

Well guess what, that's what you got Machinist for, this skillset wasn't suppose work to work cast times, and it shows, the playstyle is dreadful.

Not for me. I enjoy it thoroughly. More then MCH in fact.