Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[Rafaelhades]

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Actually, your post has more of an aggressive tone than mine. Significantly more. In fact, it has this tone of superiority that assumes anyone you're conversing with is a lesser being simply for disagreeing.

Yea it's been beaten to death and everyone is sick of hearing it or discussing it. All the horse beating isn't changing anything.

Repelling shot: I've never had an issue with it. Use it then wait a fraction of a second. Cast is not interrupted.

Straight Shot proc: You're not using the proc for the crit? How is it different from 2.0? You SS when it falls off then go to Heavy. Heavy procs right away and you have to SS again even though you just used it.

Actually, you and a lot of others who have stated that BRD is flawed have been going off of "feeling" just like the people who have been fine with BRD. The issue has mainly been the way the job "felt" and not any hard numbers, as you, yourself, have stated that BRD can perform and is not unplayable. Does it need a little more QoL adjustments? Sure. So do all the other jobs. But "flawed" denotes that it is in a bad state until otherwise fixed.

[Snowaeth]

It's not any less fluid just because you can't double oGCD. You don't double oGCD on MNK either. Say IR and Elixir Field come off CD at the same time. You still use 1 between each GCD or you're delaying GCDs. Same applies to some of the other jobs. Just because 2.0 BRD could easily double oGCD doesn't mean 3.0 BRD w/ WM up isn't as fluid because of only being able to use 1 oGCD between each GCD outside of Straighter Shot procs.

Bard has way more buffs to align for their rotation than any other class. Delaying any buffs will get them misaligned for the rest of the fight, delaying them enough times will mess up phase transitions. This forces you to either not use up BL and use a buff and miss out on BL proc chance, use BL+buff and cut into GCD, Use BL and not the buff and miss-align your buffs (do this multiple times for a misaligned rotation for the rest of the fight). All options are bad in their own way, one more than the other.

Actually, your post has more of an aggressive tone than mine. Significantly more. In fact, it has this tone of superiority that assumes anyone you're conversing with is a lesser being simply for disagreeing.

Yea it's been beaten to death and everyone is sick of hearing it or discussing it. All the horse beating isn't changing anything.

Repelling shot: I've never had an issue with it. Use it then wait a fraction of a second. Cast is not interrupted.

Straight Shot proc: You're not using the proc for the crit? How is it different from 2.0? You SS when it falls off then go to Heavy. Heavy procs right away and you have to SS again even though you just used it.

You can read between the lines all you want and make me or the tone of my words to be however you want them to be.
It doesn't change anything about the points I'm presenting and frankly enough this is not a discussion about my tone or me, so I will follow your advice and ignore the flaw of this discussion and continue on with the actual bard issues like I would with my rotation.

You never had an issue with Repelling shot, yet QUOTE: "Use it then wait a fraction of a second." you are working around something that has no issue?

As for Straight Shot it is not the same as pre 3.0 due to cast times.
You use heavy shot as a filler majority of the fight, if you use HS before you have to re-apply SS then start to re-apply SS the possible proc from HS will happen during the cast of SS.
At this point you will fire an SS and have an SS proc right there.
Now the next thing you would usually do is cast another HS after SS, but now you are forced to use the SS first in case the HS would proc the SS, so you can't hold on to the SS for a convenient time.
This means you just refreshed the SS buff and use up SS proc right after it basically making that first SS a waste of tp and dps.
To top it off if you used HS, HS which is not uncommon, you will miss the proc from the first HS and if the 2nd one proc'd SS too you would miss an SS proc.
Why is this a WM issue and not a pre 3.0 issue, because instant casts allowed enough time to react to your proc's unlike cast times that don't.

[Rafaelhades]

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I don't deny that they could tweak it a bit more, but it's not the spawn of Satan everyone makes it out to be. Have the procs appear a little bit sooner maybe? I don't think they took into account the speed most players will queue their skills and they didn't configure this into their programming. Repelling shot, SS procs.

Yes I "work around" Repelling Shot because I don't get my panties in a twist for that extra 0.5 secs I'm not spamming my key. If it really bothered me, I'd swap out of WM when using Repelling, but that can be seen as "working around" the "issue." If that was the case, then every job had to "work around" their new skills also. I suppose that's why every job, even DRG, are cropping up all over this board with complaints about their new skills. Except SMN and WAR, of course, although it'll only be a matter of time.

[Snowaeth]

I don't deny that they could tweak it a bit more, but it's not the spawn of Satan everyone makes it out to be. Have the procs appear a little bit sooner maybe? I don't think they took into account the speed most players will queue their skills and they didn't configure this into their programming. Repelling shot, SS procs.

Yes I "work around" Repelling Shot because I don't get my panties in a twist for that extra 0.5 secs I'm not spamming my key. If it really bothered me, I'd swap out of WM when using Repelling, but that can be seen as "working around" the "issue." If that was the case, then every job had to "work around" their new skills also. I suppose that's why every job, even DRG, are cropping up all over this board with complaints about their new skills. Except SMN and WAR, of course, although it'll only be a matter of time.

So you agree that it could use some work from SE's side, yet are trying to downplay anyone posting their issues.
How are we supposed to let SE know this? By pointing out the issues. It doesn't matter how big/small they are, if we just shut up about them then we ll always have them.
It's as if suggesting improvements to a class suddenly became a bad thing.

You'r able to work around the issues, I am able to work around the issues, does that mean there are no issue?
It's like having a car and the car functions just fine, except sometimes the brakes don't work if you try to brake too soon and you might need to "re-queue" your brakes.
Sure you can just learn to work around that and according to you at that point the car has no issues right?

[Rafaelhades]

So you agree that it could use some work from SE's side, yet are trying to downplay anyone posting their issues.

I see room for improvement but people, including you, make it seem like it's some game-breaking oversight. I'm all for suggesting improvements, but everytime this subject is brought up, it's anything but. It's more "WM sucks! TAKE IT OUT!" or "I don't like BRD, I quit." Notice my first post in this thread stated my PoV. Nowhere did it state "BRD's perfect. Git good." It "felt" more fluid to me once I got used to the casting time. Somehow, this statement threatens your cause? It was a response to someone who said GB is meant more for MCH than BRD is for WM.

Car analogy: If I can drive the car just fine at that point, then I'd say there are no issues on my end. If it starts to become a problem, then I'll fix it. If it can't be fixed, I'll send it back. If other people have the same issues with that model and can't or don't want to drive it, by all means, take it back to the manufacturer. But what does that have to do with BRD? We both agree it functions just fine in the content we're given. We both acknowledge that the issues can be worked around. You happen to think the issues need to be fixed. I am content with what we have. If they buff/fix it, great. If they don't, I'm still playing BRD. Again, why is that suddenly some kind of indication that I'm trying to shut down any attempts to make BRD better? Is it the fear of SE seeing that some people are fine with the current state of the job, and therefore, see ample evidence to not make adjustments? Should we all forego our own opinions on the matter just so SE can see the BRD community as a whole struggling with WM and are forced to change it? I don't have issues with WM at this point in time. You and some others do. Leave it at that.

[Snowaeth]

I see room for improvement but people, including you, make it seem like it's some game-breaking oversight. I'm all for suggesting improvements, but everytime this subject is brought up, it's anything but. It's more "WM sucks! TAKE IT OUT!" or "I don't like BRD, I quit." Notice my first post in this thread stated my PoV. Nowhere did it state "BRD's perfect. Git good." It "felt" more fluid to me once I got used to the casting time. Somehow, this statement threatens your cause? It was a response to someone who said GB is meant more for MCH than BRD is for WM.

Car analogy: If I can drive the car just fine at that point, then I'd say there are no issues on my end. If it starts to become a problem, then I'll fix it. If it can't be fixed, I'll send it back. If other people have the same issues with that model and can't or don't want to drive it, by all means, take it back to the manufacturer. But what does that have to do with BRD? We both agree it functions just fine in the content we're given. We both acknowledge that the issues can be worked around. You happen to think the issues need to be fixed. I am content with what we have. If they buff/fix it, great. If they don't, I'm still playing BRD. Again, why is that suddenly some kind of indication that I'm trying to shut down any attempts to make BRD better? Is it the fear of SE seeing that some people are fine with the current state of the job, and therefore, see ample evidence to not make adjustments? Should we all forego our own opinions on the matter just so SE can see the BRD community as a whole struggling with WM and are forced to change it? I don't have issues with WM at this point in time. You and some others do. Leave it at that.

I replied to you saying this: "WM felt "clunky" at first but when you let go of the OCD "must BL all the time every time it's up," it started to feel more fluid."
You'r telling that letting go, of a core mechanic is how you fixed the issue for yourself. This comes down to a work around and not a fix.
This doesn't threaten my case because my case is independent of yours at this point, since you let go and work around flawed mechanics (And no flawed does not mean broken, flawed means the opposite of flawless, where flawless means that it has no issues).
Where I am pointing out the flaws and would rather see those being fixed instead of left in game.

Our disagreement doesn't take away the fact that we both are able to play bard by working around the issues and that the bard when played well around these issues can perform number wise.
This however is a game and not a numbers only thing. Games are designed just like cars and just like anything that's designed it can be good or bad design.
You can't look at the end performance and say it's fine because the numbers tell so, because you'r ignoring the process behind the numbers at that point.
And I suppose this isn't the case for everyone but the core idea behind a game is enjoyment, so people saying they don't enjoy/feel/like something is a valid concern when it comes down to a product made for that purpose.

Just like my car example you just said that you would be fine driving a car with flawed brakes if you knew how to work around the flaw where a simple mistake would cost you the ability to brake potentially causing a (lethal) accident.
Because you think it's fine the way it is, or even if it's not you, then another person driving that car could cause that accident, but hey they should have worked around it.

Simply because I can perform and work around issues which if you didn't realize yet I'm not a fan of, yet they don't slow me down just make me enjoy the skills less.
Doesn't mean that I don't see the flaws with the skills and would rather have them fixed for my enjoyment or for the sake of other people that actually do have issues with those skills.

And there it comes down to the last bit, you have no issues, yet you don't mind things being polished more.
Well people that actually do have issues are the one that need these fixes, thus indeed the ones that need to be listened to.
If the fixes do happen which you don't mind either, then there will be happy people on both sides rather than unhappy on one and not caring on the other.

Yet somehow it is YOU that sees everything I say as some kind of attack on your ability to voice your very important opinion "that you have no issues".
Yet you are not the one that needs anything changed and yes you are downplaying the concerns voiced by others by pointing out people that are voicing their dislikes in a very nonconstructive manner.
Well a nonconstructive dislike is still a dislike just because they don't communicate it well doesn't mean they don't have a valid reason to dislike something.
But as a work around we probably can close our eyes and pretend there are no issues.

[AiiroOkami]

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Sorry to say this, but nobody will take seriously a guy who only claims "WM sucks ! Change it !".
If you are not constructive, everyone just assume you're just a whiner and we won't even take your opinion on the subject.

SE can look at WM "issues" if there was a real issue DPSwise, which is not the case. As long as you can play it and clear content, SE takes it as a well-done class.
Maybe they will change it at some point, but not now and not with the attitude people have against them. Don't forget that they are the masters of the game and can do whatever they want. And there are more important issues than the BRD at the moment that SE are taking care of.