Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[SooChe]

Let's just play how we like. The true stupid is SE.

[Stupiduglytaru]

I've heard though that A3 is a pain to do on the MNK because something is guaranteed to fall off all the time, or was it some other fight? I can't really remember.

Still, even if that is the case, i.e. encounter mechanics making a specific class always perform at abysmal capacity---not that I'm saying MNKs can't do over 600 on A3, just an example---having an official parser would allow the community to quickly come to that conclusion and provide feedback to the devs.

It certainly requires more knowledge of phase timings than other jobs, but with form shift its possible to maintain.

A1 and maybe A4? If pulled into tunnel near the end of gl and completely wrong form.

[Asierid]

First, dont call me stupid just to disagree with you, your argument in favour of the parser is a non existing argument, in my eyes, and I will, as I see fit, comment on it , but you can stop answering.

I didn't call you stupid. Re-read that statement. I said your argument was idiotic and pointless and has no merit. Learn the difference between the two before you attempt to correct someone.

Now, I NEVER disputed that people should try to improve

But you are against parsers, which main function serves to inform the user on their current numbers based on their rotations. How is that not against improvement? If you are against something that is clearly made to help someone, you are against improvement. It is a pretty simple process to understand really, I fail to see how you're trying to even argue this.

the parser in a community as toxic

Proof. Personal opinion is never a good thing to take to an argument like this. You have nothing other than personal feelings and naive perceptions based on the handful of people you met...who more than likely didn't even use one. Fact: A parser gives DPS numbers. Fact: A person can take these numbers, see improvement, and expand upon those.

You give nothing except blanket statements and make rather quick and curt judgements on people when you're being proven wrong. Seems like you're falling into the one stereotype you're trying to describe here.

where people consider themselves superior to anyone else, would just promote the *kick others* for having a bad day, bad connection, playing ina way that helps the group rather then concentrate on numbers, is what I am against.

That's great. Too bad that a parser is never used for any of these things. This sentence has no place in this thread and serves to bloat an already empty argument. This game is all about numbers. Your HP is in numbers, your heals are in numbers, your Gil is in numbers. You simply need to get over the numbers fetish and accept that you're surrounded in numbers and can't argue your way out of it. It is how it is. Play a MUD if you don't want nu- Oh wait.

I will still say it, in a group the failure is NOT and has NEVER been on the shoulder of ONE person

Til your healer dies on Titan. Til your DPS dies on A1S Faust. Til that one guy drags the healer debuff from A4 into the entire group.

Yeah, you're wrong here too.

the group as a whole is guilty for it

We're wrong because you don't want to step up? Get your carry somewhere else and stop dragging us down.

parser is good IF you can put numbers into context if you can analyze each and everyones' TRUE contribution based on fact rather then numbers

That's what a parser does. Do you even know what you're arguing about now? It really feels like you're just throwing crap at a wall to see if it sticks or not.

No matter what you think, the tool is NOT meant for immature, and 70 % of the community (and I think I am still nice in saying that) is made of immature, be it because too Young to know better or just because they like to be stupid or staff alike, I am sure you dont need a drawing to explain to you what I mean.

You don't even know what the tool is used for as mentioned above, you can't even try to argue this now. I'll even rent you a back hoe to help you dig this hole faster...

Bloated numbers with no source, use of "young" and "immature" to attempt to justify an obviously wrong statement. Trying to make me appear to be the bad guy for the faults you mentioned earlier and slipping words into my arguments while getting riled up. I see a trend here...

I never judged your way of playing, so refrain from judging my way of playing, I dont knwo you nor do I care to and you dont know me nor do I care you to know me

I don't....what? Considering you mentioned it first with this line:

frankly, if you have the time to look what is happenign around you and findo ut the culprit in my opinion you are not either doing all you could since your concentration is elsewhere, but that is just my vision.

And I didn't mention your play style anywhere in mine, this also has no place in this thread. Again, putting words in my mouth for no reason. If you're going to attempt to use these watered down attacks, least make them hit the mark.

Using a parser will just end like this conversation in people finding others stupid and wanting them to go, here you can always blacklist me, wouldnt mind, but in-game that means kick.....thank you to prove my point about immaturity.

Using a parser will end up in people being proven wrong, much like this argument, yes. And they will throw fits like this too.

And psst, re-read your statements and reconsider that stance on who is immature around here.

[sirDarts]

would just promote the *kick others* for having a bad day, bad connection

YES! They are detrimental to the enjoyment of others! If you are having a bad day or bad connection DON'T join hard content! This is a MULTIPLAYER game your behavior influences 7 others!

playing ina way that helps the group rather then concentrate on numbers

DPS are supposed to push numbers. Nothing else. There is no way a DPS can play in a way that helps the group while not pushing numbers.

having a 0,0000001 less input in numbers then the lowest one

Lower than the lowest DPS? No, nobody would get kicked for that.
Lower than the healer? YES, you DESERVE a kick if you can't push out more DPS than the healer, you are CLEARLY not pulling your weight.

I will still say it, in a group the failure is NOT and has NEVER been on the shoulder of ONE person

This is COMPLETELY wrong. If the tank loses agro and the team wipes (considering somewhat equal equipment), it's solely the tanks fault. If the healer lets someone die to unavoidable damage, and the team wipes, it's solely the healers fault. If someone dies to avoidable mechanic and the team dies, it's solely this players fault.
Sam way if a fight requires an average of 800 DPS among the DPS, and one of them is pushing <600, and the team wipes, it's solely the <600 player's fault.

Today you have to be careful in saying that you are using a parser, it could end up you in being banned, ergo why we dont have many accidents with that, but I guarantee you without a doubt that the day is out officially, we will be seeing zillions of posts of people that will complain about the abuse of that tool. Dont mix things thank you very much. I dont care if you use a parser TODAY, it is forced to be for your own use right ? but if it was officially permitted how long would it take you to come and point fingers and just kick...by analyzing cold numbers of others not even yours..eh?

Yeah, now you can just look at the numbers and abuse them by using words that don't contain these numbers. Thus there is no way to prove that you are indeed using a parser. Or you can go: "OMG have you seen the BLM's rotation?! It's terrible! That's why we are not passing the DPS check! Kick him!" Easy, really.
But guess what? It doesn't matter what you use as the base for abusing someone, you will get punished if they report you. It also doesn't matter what you use as a base to kick someone, as you won't be punished for that (because "different playstyle" is a valid kick reason).

When they would release full party parses, they could just punish anyone who uses the numbers to abuse someone, and everything is fine.
OR just go the way of Personal Parsers!

[Elazu]

I've heard though that A3 is a pain to do on the MNK because something is guaranteed to fall off all the time, or was it some other fight? I can't really remember.

That doesn't excuse doing level 50 dps at level 60.

[Gilraen]

So your "And those running third party parsers, as I've noted, used their numbers exactly how we feared they'd be used." is nothing but anecdotal evidence without any relevance.

Anecdotal suggests a lack of experience with the subject. I guess you missed the sentence, and my post well prior in this thread, where I specifically cite a tank in a Fractal run using a parser to call out the party for their bad DPS. That is experience, and first-hand experience at that, nothing anecdotal about it. And in the end it wound up being the tank that was holding us up so it wasn't even the party's fault. Prime bloody example of what we are trying to avoid.

[Phireblast]

I've heard though that A3 is a pain to do on the MNK because something is guaranteed to fall off all the time, or was it some other fight? I can't really remember.

Still, even if that is the case, i.e. encounter mechanics making a specific class always perform at abysmal capacity---not that I'm saying MNKs can't do over 600 on A3, just an example---having an official parser would allow the community to quickly come to that conclusion and provide feedback to the devs.

The only times your stacks should be falling in A3 is for the add phases. That being said, I get around 700-900. That being said, that MNK wasn't playing optimally.

[MeiUshu]

@Sir Darts,

Contrary to you, I speak of experience for having seen, peopel using parsers saying it open and initiating a vote to kick a dps outo f the group for ..poor perfomance, so I do speak with knowlegde, good knowledge, having seen it more then not.If someone dies in Titan, maybe because cant avoid titan's attack, nothing to do with parser, if a dps dies, it can be also becausese of the healer's fault, here going towards my point e.g. failure of the group is NOT on the shoulder of one only etc etc etc....still remain parser is for mature people, or with a mature intelligence..and not for children that will find it amusing to throw someone out they dont like (this too is a true story)

But, I am not difficult you know, each can live as they want .....and play as they want...this conversation, in the end brings nowhere, we do not hold the power to decide, SE holds it, I dont personalyl care either ways, I can only try my best which to some may nto be enough. you might want to come down from your mighty horse though and stop being hypocrital....in this communiyt many are immature snooty selfish people that all it matters is themselves...and never or rarely the good of a group

Mei

[Black_Rose]

why aren't people that are sick of "bad DPS", whatever that's supposed to mean, just playing in statics?
i think it has already been said a long time ago by yoshi, that higher tier content is supposed to be done in FCs and statics.
if something is to blame, it's the way this game forces DPS checks instead of complex and challenging encounters.
blame the game, not the player.

[sirDarts]

Anecdotal suggests a lack of experience with the subject. I guess you missed the sentence, and my post well prior in this thread, where I specifically cite a tank in a Fractal run using a parser to call out the party for their bad DPS. That is experience, and first-hand experience at that, nothing anecdotal about it. And in the end it wound up being the tank that was holding us up so it wasn't even the party's fault. Prime bloody example of what we are trying to avoid.

That's EXACTLY what's anecdotal about your evidence. Your lack of knowledge and information makes you overvalue ONE bad experience while being COMPLETELY unable to see any neutral/good experience you might have had with people who use parsers, because you DON'T KNOW who is and who isn't.

@Sir Darts,

Contrary to you, I speak of experience for having seen, peopel using parsers saying it open and initiating a vote to kick a dps outo f the group for ..poor perfomance, so I do speak with knowlegde, good knowledge, having seen it more then not.If someone dies in Titan, maybe because cant avoid titan's attack, nothing to do with parser, if a dps dies, it can be also becausese of the healer's fault, here going towards my point e.g. failure of the group is NOT on the shoulder of one only etc etc etc....still remain parser is for mature people, or with a mature intelligence..and not for children that will find it amusing to throw someone out they dont like (this too is a true story)

But, I am not difficult you know, each can live as they want .....and play as they want...this conversation, in the end brings nowhere, we do not hold the power to decide, SE holds it, I dont personalyl care either ways, I can only try my best which to some may nto be enough. you might want to come down from your mighty horse though and stop being hypocrital....in this communiyt many are immature snooty selfish people that all it matters is themselves...and never or rarely the good of a group

Mei

And I speak of experience for having seen people do nothing bad with parsers (me for example). So yeah... Our experience is worth the same, and it all boils down to one thing: People who want to be dicks will be dicks no matter the tools they have, and people who don't want to be dicks won't be dicks no matter the tools they have.

OK, I'm really starting to lose my patience with you...
I HAVE CLEARLY written that if someone dies to unavoidable damage, it IS the healer's fault.
And I HAVE CLEARLY written that if someone dies to avoidable damage, it IS their fault.
But it's still ONE PLAYER who is at fault, NOT the whole team.

AND ONCE AGAIN, if you are afraid of full party parsers, sure, but PERSONAL parsers would benefit EVERYONE!

why aren't people that are sick of "bad DPS", whatever that's supposed to mean, just playing in statics?
i think it has already been said a long time ago by yoshi, that higher tier content is supposed to be done in FCs and statics.
if something is to blame, it's the way this game forces DPS checks instead of complex and challenging encounters.
blame the game, not the player.

So basically you are saying, that Healers and Tanks ALWAYS have to play as good as they can (since their failure in anything above Brayflox means a wipe), yet DPS can play with one hand up their... *ehm*... because DPS checks are only in harder content which should be done with a premade group?

And people wonder why we say that DPS in this game are babied...