Dragoon Punished at lvl 58 - What needs to be done with Wheeling Thrust

[Kaonis]

I just hit 58 DRG, and I'm honestly split on even doing my quest yet. I mean my "reward" is to get a copy of an ability I already have and to basically get told to put forth more effort and skill to obtain the same outcome I was already capable of doing. Please someone explain to me how that's fun or makes any sort of sense.

Wheeling Thrust is literally the only issue I have with DRG atm as a job, but it's a big issue having a worthless ability added just to make the class "challenging".

[Aiselia]

I just hit 58 DRG, and I'm honestly split on even doing my quest yet. I mean my "reward" is to get a copy of an ability I already have and to basically get told to put forth more effort and skill to obtain the same outcome I was already capable of doing. Please someone explain to me how that's fun or makes any sort of sense.

Wheeling Thrust is literally the only issue I have with DRG atm as a job, but it's a big issue having a worthless ability added just to make the class "challenging".

I won't waste my time retyping it because it's already there to quote.

Here's a benefit: 50% chance after using Chaos Thrust to not have to move to hit the 4th hit positional.
Here's another benefit: You have a chance to not get hosed on your damage if mechanics dictate you can't hit from the side on your fourth hit.

Just because you choose to ignore any benefits doesn't negate them.

[justinjarjar]

I just hit 58 DRG, and I'm honestly split on even doing my quest yet. I mean my "reward" is to get a copy of an ability I already have and to basically get told to put forth more effort and skill to obtain the same outcome I was already capable of doing. Please someone explain to me how that's fun or makes any sort of sense.

Wheeling Thrust is literally the only issue I have with DRG atm as a job, but it's a big issue having a worthless ability added just to make the class "challenging".

Lose dps at 60 or get used to it now. Those are your options no point in complaining about it at this point.

[Rafaelhades]

Lose dps at 60 or get used to it now. Those are your options no point in complaining about it at this point.

But how will people get better if they don't complain? The only way for players to improve is to whine until the devs make the game easier.

[justinjarjar]

But how will people get better if they don't complain? The only way for players to improve is to whine until the devs make the game easier.

I hope not, I like it as many others do, the only people left complaining want to be spoon fed their dps. It is so sad.

[GrizzlyTank]

I hope not, I like it as many others do, the only people left complaining want to be spoon fed their dps. It is so sad.

So far most of your argumentation in this thread have have been "people have a different opinion than me, therfore they must suck". And sadly enoguh you aren't the only one...

Wheeling Thrust have no reason to exist in it's current form and only servers to add aclunky macro to the skill bar. What F&C and WT does now could have been slaped together onto F&C only without any issues. And make soemthing else out of WT that doesn't change our current 4 step combo or increase our DPS.

Nothing is spoon fed, and nothing is easier.

[Shurrikhan]

I hope not, I like it as many others do, the only people left complaining want to be spoon fed their dps. It is so sad.

Consider:
At level 58 you gain the ability Fang & Claw. Your combo-ed Chaos Thrust and Full Thrust weaponskills now have a 50% chance to proc either Fang or Claw.
Fang: Causes your Fang & Claw to deal an additional 90 potency if performed from the target's flank. [Uses the animation of Fang & Claw.]
Claw: Causes your Fang & Claw to deal an additional 90 potency if performed from behind the target. [Uses the animation of Wheeling Thrust.]

^ This is why Wheeling Thrust is arguably a problem of lack of complexity, or essentially "spoon-fed dps". It is identical to another move except that it uses another positional requirement. It requires no additional thinking. The only difference this made to my rotation at 58 was that I had to move in place for Jump after the WT/F&C proc instead of immediately after CT/FT (all of a .5 second delay) and, if I couldn't move quickly enough to avoid GCD-clipping from Jump, use Jump a GCD later. That was it. It's essentially brainless.

58 didn't give too difficult an ability. It didn't give any ability. All it supplied was a nerf to what we already had at 56, which didn't even make it much more difficult - it just didn't deserve its own leveling slot. If it had at least buffed the 56 ability, it could be pawed off like Stone III - replacing an old ability, albeit stupidly close to its replacement. Granted, the only advantage of that would be that more people might look at the key issue instead of calling those who see fault in it skill-less. (No pun intended?)

The interesting part of 4ths isn't the randomness, the interesting part is the blood of the dragon management. You have a bunch of meaningful choices now. Do I skip a geirskogul to be sure I don't lose my buff, do I skip HT/phleb to renew my buff because mechanics? Is this a good moment to even activate the buff?

It feels like people want a rotation, that you can always in any circumstance roll with a 100% efficiency and encounters that don't have mechanics to make it harder.

Ravana doesn't make it harder. It simply presents you with a coin-toss. Heads 200. Tails 290. Defy the coin toss and your kb'ed and slowed. Probably a negative net potency. That's not difficulty.
Any other fight in the game that allows you to attack both back and flank (anything that's not early Demon Wall) doesn't add any real difficulty either. At most it delays Jump.

I'd love to see a proc that actually messes with my HT, combo 1, Pb, combo 2, HT, combo 1, Pb, combo 2 rotation. Wheeling Thrust does not however provide that.

[RapBreon]

Ravana doesn't make it harder. It simply presents you with a coin-toss. Heads 200. Tails 290. Defy the coin toss and your kb'ed and slowed. Probably a negative net potency. That's not difficulty.
Any other fight in the game that allows you to attack both back and flank (anything that's not early Demon Wall) doesn't add any real difficulty either. At most it delays Jump.

I'd love to see a proc that actually messes with my HT, combo 1, Pb, combo 2, HT, combo 1, Pb, combo 2 rotation. Wheeling Thrust does not however provide that.

This is not entirely accurate from experience, sometimes I can slip the correct positional in if I'm quick off the mark on Ravana and my reading comprehension is on-point. I make a choice to go for that 90 potency at the risk of the KB and slow; that choice to 'push the boundary' is what makes the mechanic worthwhile for me. I stand in AoE all the time for that 90 potency (situational, but I consciously make the choice). Hell, I've thrown an entire Sav 1 attempt to the wind because I got the entire team resin bomb'd because I wanted that 90 potency; RnGesus gave me the wrong proc and goddamn I'm not losing to that Monk. So I guess it has some net effect (as opposed to none, which is being argued by many).

It's not 'difficult' per se - not much is with practice - but it allows me to make a decision; which I enjoy. By itself it's not complex, but sometimes if your DRG is a goon (like me) it has interplay with specific boss fights.

[Eecka]

*post*

Yeah, at Rav in that particular phase, it is a coin toss. So because this one encounter exists, positionals are bad? In that phase, your goal is to keep hitting him the only way you can. He specifically forces you to ignore positionals in favour of mechanics, so it's pretty obvious that this phase of the fight is not one to demonstrate how easy/hard positionals are to use.

And no, hitting the 4th doesn't add any REAL difficulty. Just like hitting the positional on CT and HT doesn't add any REAL difficulty. It's easy to hit them unless the tank is spinning the mobs around. What 4th adds is the need for the player to stay awake and pay attention to what's happening. 2.X rotation is SO_BORING. And hell yeah, I want a proc that actually messes with the combos as well, anything to make the rotation more dynamic. 4th isn't the holy grail that adds this, but it helps. Static rotations are so 2004.

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah, at Rav in that particular phase, it is a coin toss. So because this one encounter exists, positionals are bad?

Clearly not my position. (Brief aside: Monk is my favorite melee. Just waiting on Chakra improvements ...that will likely never come.) I only mentioned it because others had used it as an example on the page I was looking at when writing this and felt compelled to correct the thought and because it's the only truly unique/non-default circumstance I could mention. It is obviously, as you said, not an example of positionals generally.

My only solution for the dulldrum of 2.x DRG was to drop to a 2.22 GCD with Selene. My rotation toggled (or 'altered' with any downtime) with Fey Glow. Can't honestly say I find the C1, C2 any better though, even with the added bonus of the combo-4th.
My only reason for joining this thread was because I found WT's implementation ridiculous (along with any excuse for it aside from "leveling curve!"). What I'd actually want for the DRG job probably belongs to a very seperate suggestion thread. Only still writing here cus it's already bloated as hell, so oh well. v.v

@RapBreon Yeah I get that, totally. I just didn't think it unique to the combo-4ths (since it's in HT and CT albeit for 20 and 40 potency less difference), so I didn't mention it there. Threading the needle / running the edge is always a fun element to have.
@Fynlar That's why I mentioned Jump being delayed - since it will eat into your movement for effectively longer than it will eat into your rate of attack alone. As you said though, I suppose that is an increase in difficulty (could argue 'real' til blue/draenai/corpses), even not in any new form. I was overly broad.