Dragoon Punished at lvl 58 - What needs to be done with Wheeling Thrust

[justinjarjar]

I just hit 58 DRG, and I'm honestly split on even doing my quest yet. I mean my "reward" is to get a copy of an ability I already have and to basically get told to put forth more effort and skill to obtain the same outcome I was already capable of doing. Please someone explain to me how that's fun or makes any sort of sense.

Wheeling Thrust is literally the only issue I have with DRG atm as a job, but it's a big issue having a worthless ability added just to make the class "challenging".

Lose dps at 60 or get used to it now. Those are your options no point in complaining about it at this point.

[Rafaelhades]

Lose dps at 60 or get used to it now. Those are your options no point in complaining about it at this point.

But how will people get better if they don't complain? The only way for players to improve is to whine until the devs make the game easier.

[justinjarjar]

But how will people get better if they don't complain? The only way for players to improve is to whine until the devs make the game easier.

I hope not, I like it as many others do, the only people left complaining want to be spoon fed their dps. It is so sad.

[Hyrist]

I just hit 58 DRG, and I'm honestly split on even doing my quest yet. I mean my "reward" is to get a copy of an ability I already have and to basically get told to put forth more effort and skill to obtain the same outcome I was already capable of doing. Please someone explain to me how that's fun or makes any sort of sense.

Wheeling Thrust is literally the only issue I have with DRG atm as a job, but it's a big issue having a worthless ability added just to make the class "challenging".

Here's what gets me. You're operating on hearsay and paper issues. The only one who can make a decision on it is you. Play it. Try it out. If you don't like it, perhaps Dragoon is no longer for you. The feedback has been made and is proven as divided. Why don't you see for yourself? Get Dragoon to Sixty and spend some time with it afterwards. Make your own judgement first hand. I and others enjoy it. It feels really active and involved, but I can't speak for you.

You shouldn't let others speak for you. Get first hand experience. The request to change has been made, and you'll never really 'lose' the levels you have if you ever change your mind after deciding you don't like it, or if Dragoon does change. So the risk is small.

You owe it to yourself to weigh in your own experiences.

[Sacerdos]

You should get Wheeling Thrust ASAP to get used to it in your rotation. Geirskogul is ~600 potency a minute you can't pass up.

[GrizzlyTank]

I hope not, I like it as many others do, the only people left complaining want to be spoon fed their dps. It is so sad.

So far most of your argumentation in this thread have have been "people have a different opinion than me, therfore they must suck". And sadly enoguh you aren't the only one...

Wheeling Thrust have no reason to exist in it's current form and only servers to add aclunky macro to the skill bar. What F&C and WT does now could have been slaped together onto F&C only without any issues. And make soemthing else out of WT that doesn't change our current 4 step combo or increase our DPS.

Nothing is spoon fed, and nothing is easier.

[Eecka]

But Grizzly, me and a bunch of other players enjoy the mechanic, you can't say it has no reason to exist, because if a number of players like it, then it has a very good reason to exist.

I really don't understand the "artificial difficulty" argument at all. Everything about every classes rotation is artificially difficult. Every class could have a 1-2-3 rotation, or even 1-1-1-1-1-1 if squeenix wanted simple rotations.

Every buff you manage is 100% articial. Heavy thrust is literally just a Burton you have to remember to press. On bosses, leg sweep is nothing but a "do you remember press this every time it's up" button.

A skills needs at least some conditions to make it interesting. People want the animation lock off jump, but that animation is the only thing that sets it apart from leg sweep. At least now it has the additional "do i have time to cast this" -factor, rather than just being a button you press every time you can.

[Eecka]

The interesting part of 4ths isn't the randomness, the interesting part is the blood of the dragon management. You have a bunch of meaningful choices now. Do I skip a geirskogul to be sure I don't lose my buff, do I skip HT/phleb to renew my buff because mechanics? Is this a good moment to even activate the buff?

It feels like people want a rotation, that you can always in any circumstance roll with a 100% efficiency and encounters that don't have mechanics to make it harder.

[Kumori_Kumo]

The interesting part of 4ths isn't the randomness, the interesting part is the blood of the dragon management.

... So... you agree then? Because the whole point of the thread is that it randomly changing from one move to another doesn't enhance the gameplay.

[Shurrikhan]

I hope not, I like it as many others do, the only people left complaining want to be spoon fed their dps. It is so sad.

Consider:
At level 58 you gain the ability Fang & Claw. Your combo-ed Chaos Thrust and Full Thrust weaponskills now have a 50% chance to proc either Fang or Claw.
Fang: Causes your Fang & Claw to deal an additional 90 potency if performed from the target's flank. [Uses the animation of Fang & Claw.]
Claw: Causes your Fang & Claw to deal an additional 90 potency if performed from behind the target. [Uses the animation of Wheeling Thrust.]

^ This is why Wheeling Thrust is arguably a problem of lack of complexity, or essentially "spoon-fed dps". It is identical to another move except that it uses another positional requirement. It requires no additional thinking. The only difference this made to my rotation at 58 was that I had to move in place for Jump after the WT/F&C proc instead of immediately after CT/FT (all of a .5 second delay) and, if I couldn't move quickly enough to avoid GCD-clipping from Jump, use Jump a GCD later. That was it. It's essentially brainless.

58 didn't give too difficult an ability. It didn't give any ability. All it supplied was a nerf to what we already had at 56, which didn't even make it much more difficult - it just didn't deserve its own leveling slot. If it had at least buffed the 56 ability, it could be pawed off like Stone III - replacing an old ability, albeit stupidly close to its replacement. Granted, the only advantage of that would be that more people might look at the key issue instead of calling those who see fault in it skill-less. (No pun intended?)

The interesting part of 4ths isn't the randomness, the interesting part is the blood of the dragon management. You have a bunch of meaningful choices now. Do I skip a geirskogul to be sure I don't lose my buff, do I skip HT/phleb to renew my buff because mechanics? Is this a good moment to even activate the buff?

It feels like people want a rotation, that you can always in any circumstance roll with a 100% efficiency and encounters that don't have mechanics to make it harder.

Ravana doesn't make it harder. It simply presents you with a coin-toss. Heads 200. Tails 290. Defy the coin toss and your kb'ed and slowed. Probably a negative net potency. That's not difficulty.
Any other fight in the game that allows you to attack both back and flank (anything that's not early Demon Wall) doesn't add any real difficulty either. At most it delays Jump.

I'd love to see a proc that actually messes with my HT, combo 1, Pb, combo 2, HT, combo 1, Pb, combo 2 rotation. Wheeling Thrust does not however provide that.