Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[Snowaeth]

Finally someone said it. You don't think the BRD is broken or need a rework, you just DON'T like the class.
I don't know why you are so stubborn about fixing things that don't need to be fixed just because you don't like it.
I don't like the WHM, I don't like his "playstyle" (I use a word everyone here like to use). Do I whine about it or say that the WHM is broken ?
No, I just don't play it and play classes I enjoy playing, there are plenty of other classes in the game. If you like none of them, I only have 1 advice; quit the game, don't waste your time on something you don't like.
Simple as that, people.

Just because someone says one thing, doesn't mean that sums up everything.
There are plenty of QoL fixes that the bard can use.
These QoL issues add up to people not liking it, but they are actual issues with the bard skills unlike the like/dislike thing they'r straight up conflicts of stance vs skills.
The fact that some people like broken skills, is the same argument as what you'r saying, just because some people like a broken thing, doesn't mean it's not broken.

I personally dislike the change of playstyle especially because of the class homogenization that happens from outright copying a stance from another class.
I still play bard as I dislike most other jobs even more, but me disliking the playstyle change is a separate issue from the actual QoL issues that came with the stance which are real issues.

And yes the bard is playable, does solid dps when played right while avoiding the issues that it has, it still does have those issues despite all that.
It's like we'r playing the game in the current state, but the bard itself is still in beta where skills are just unpolished unlike other jobs.

[AiiroOkami]

Snip

So you're telling me that a DD (Damage dealer) coupled with some support skills is totally playable, can deal good damages, support his team, clear the hardest content, BUT it is still broken ?
Sounds totally right to me /sarcasm

What broken skills ? Every skills seems to work fine, I didn't got a complain from a BRD that his skills are broken.
The procs can also be fine, you just need a correct connection.

You sound like you just hate the game, why do you play a game you hate ? I really can't understand this, SE try to please everyone, but this is impossible. They don't have time to always look at issues that some people (yeah you clearly are the minority of the BRD playerbase) dislike.

[SlyRoyale]

No, you're just the one crying about the crying about the ability.

The difference is that you have the ability to refrain from going into the threads if they bug you. Bards do not have the ability to refrain from going into WM without being drains on the rest of the party because their damage is now balanced around using WM.

Sounds like the ones who are complaining do not want to relearn the job and adjust to it. That's worse than calling people out for it.

Getting better has nothing to do with liking something and doesn't fix objective issues, so that's not exactly useful input.

Let me tell you why those "objective issues" are bullshit.

Despite being a mobile job, BRDs can stay in one spot and only move if they have to like anyone else. If those moments are few and far, you'll only "need" to turn off WM to sneak in auto-attacks. Have to move for an extended period of time? Turn off the stance and turn it back on when you can stay still. There is also the issue of River of Blood, but that is based on RNG. Not much we can do about that aside from the gear we wear. Potent abilities gated behind the stance? Guess what: the damage boost from WM affects them, too. Empyreal Arrow's potency is 286 after Minuet, and Iron Jaws is 130 plus 273 and 351 from Venomous and Windbite DoTs respectively, adding up to a total of 754 potency. Can't say no to that. Clunkiness? Please. Our cast times are shorter than those of actual casters. We can still weave in oGCDs between GCDs. Only difference is we'd be hard-pressed to try and weave in two at a time, and that's just an adjustment issue.

Did I hit upon each "objective issue" you were thinking of?

[RiceisNice]

What broken skills ? Every skills seems to work fine, I didn't got a complain from a BRD that his skills are broken.
The procs can also be fine, you just need a correct connection.
.

You can't catch straighter shot procs right after a heavy shot, even if you use a GCD right after the heavy shot that proc'd it. If you used a straight shot after a heavy shot proccing SS, you will not get the instant cast or 100% crit regardless, evenif you used an oGCD right after heavyshot. The only way you'd ever catch this is if you purposely delay your weaponskill beyond the 2.5 GCD.

Sounds like the ones who are complaining do not want to relearn the job and adjust to it. That's worse than calling people out for it.



Let me tell you why those "objective issues" are bullshit.

Despite being a mobile job, BRDs can stay in one spot and only move if they have to like anyone else. If those moments are few and far, you'll only "need" to turn off WM to sneak in auto-attacks. Have to move for an extended period of time? Turn off the stance and turn it back on when you can stay still. There is also the issue of River of Blood, but that is based on RNG. Not much we can do about that aside from the gear we wear. Potent abilities gated behind the stance? Guess what: the damage boost from WM affects them, too. Empyreal Arrow's potency is 286 after Minuet, and Iron Jaws is 130 plus 273 and 351 from Venomous and Windbite DoTs respectively, adding up to a total of 754 potency. Can't say no to that. Clunkiness? Please. Our cast times are shorter than those of actual casters. We can still weave in oGCDs between GCDs. Only difference is we'd be hard-pressed to try and weave in two at a time, and that's just an adjustment issue.

I don't think it's mentioned in this thread yet. I'm losing track because everyone from both sides always tackle on different perspectives or have very selective reading.

Mobility is not the issue here. It's not the DPS. It's the playstyle for some of us who enjoyed how fast paced Bard was in 2.0.

Alot of hte problems come because of the cast times, even if it's 1.5 seconds long. You can't weave two oGCDs; which means you'll either end up doubling ogCDs and delaying your weapon skill, or delaying your oGCD/bloodletter when river of blood procs. Doing the former is an utter pacebreaker for a class where I used to time my GCDs and pop an ability as soon as it runs out. If I double my oGCDs inbetween each one, I can't use a weaponskill as soon as it comes off the GCD. If I don't use my bloodletter as it procs, I risk doubling up on that reset and causing a dps loss.

And then you have the problem with straight shot above not registering fast enough to be used within the next GCD, even if you used an oGCD to cancel heavy shot's animation. And funny enough, BLM apparently had a similar problem with fire III not using up fire starter procs (which only occurs when they use sharpcast, I don't know why they would try to hardcast a fire III after fire otherwise) and they ended up fixing that in 8/4 but not straighter shot.

The whole introduction of WM onto bard was incredibly halfassed, especially since MCH gets the exact, same, functional ability. It doesn't even follow bard's inherent gameplay or add onto it, it just turns it around and doesn't appeal to anyone who enjoyed 2.0's bard. It even shows in just how awkward the animations for emypyreal and windbite look that they were not designed with cast times in mind, they clip so obnoxiously when you use an oGCD after it.

[Aiselia]

That's worse than calling people out for it.

False.

If I want fixes made to the class, me posting a thread about it doesn't affect you unless you let it affect you because I'm not forcing you into the thread. If you come into that thread and start crying at me about how you don't want to see the thread, you are forcing your opinion down my throat.

See how that works?

Let me tell you why those "objective issues" are bullshit.

Let me predict that you won't touch on the objective issues I'm thinking of.

mobile

Strike one. Mobility is not an objective issue.

that is based on RNG. Not much we can do about that aside from the gear we wear.

I'm not entirely sure if you're referring to the actual issue with missing Bloodletters as gear wouldn't affect anything about that. So I'll say strike two because you probably don't understand the actual issue.

Potent abilities gated behind the stance?

Strike three. Abilities being gated behind the stance are not an objective issue.

Our cast times are shorter than those of actual casters.

And most casters don't have a ton of OGCDs to weave in. SMN has the most OGCDs as a caster and guess what? They have Ruin 2 if they need to.

Did I hit upon each "objective issue" you were thinking of?

Unsurprisingly, no. You completely missed Straighter Shot proccing after the GCD is up so you can start casting Straight Shot before it procs, wasting your time and TP on the non-crit, non-instant SS.

Please try to understand issues before you try to say they don't exist.

[RiceisNice]

[QUOTE=Aiselia;3222266]../QUOTE]

To be fair, he's probably speaking on the context of this thread specifically. There's so many bards that talk about different things, and people always get different perspectives of what they're complaining about.

[Zari]

They arent going to change BRD's playstyle back to 2.0 just because a few people dont like the new one. Most of the jobs got some sort of new playstyle or aspect to their playstyle that changes it.

If you dont like it anymore, sorry but too bad they arent changing it back, find another job you enjoy or if you enjoy none then there is no point to playing the game anymore.
QoL changes are welcome, but whining for playstyle changes wont do anything

[RinchanNau]

The silliest thing about all the whining is that we are perfectly capable of moving just fine when necessary to handle mechanics, dodge, etc. You can do it without missing or delaying even a single GCD. It's quite useful for parts of A1 savage, A3 savage, Ravana ex, etc. I know we're all heartbroken that we can't run in circles around our targets anymore while jumping and still maximizing DPS... But it's going to be okay. Honestly. It is going to be okay.

[Aiselia]

Most of the jobs got some sort of new playstyle

Really? Name one.

[SlyRoyale]

snip

I dunno about that. I still find BRD to be pretty fast-paced. The cast timers create the illusion of the job being "slower" while it's actually getting faster. With faster GCDs thanks to the increasing skill speed we're getting from our gear, it may no longer be beneficial for us to weave in two cooldowns. With one of my gear sets, I have 592 skill speed, which gives me a 2.41s recast on my GCD and a 1.44s cast timer on weaponskills. Previously, people recommended having a 2.47s GCD recast to weave in two abilities in-between and still have a bit of breathing room to not clip into our GCD. With the latest changes BRD has received, this may no longer be viable but it is not that job-breaking of an issue. All it means we just have to weave in abilities one at a time.

The "issue" with Straight Shot is more of an exploit if you ask me. Even if you do get a proc and end up casting the weaponskill, you can still move without having the cast interrupted. On top of that, you still have the proc ready and if you have Empyreal Arrow ready to go then that's some extra DPS right there.

While 2.0's BRD was fun, 3.0 is still fast-paced. The cast timers just make us think it feels slow.

Please try to understand issues before you try to say they don't exist.

They don't, really, which is why I was being a complete asshole in my post. Higher crit means more damage and extra chances for River of Blood to kick in. Does that mean there's more of a chance to miss a reset? Yes. Is it free damage when we use them? Yes. It offsets itself. As for our oGCDs, we just have to weave them in one at a time. Nothing difficult about that at all. Just remember your priority system and you'll be fine.

And Straighter Shot being an issue? Please. Again, as I've previously mentioned in this post, I consider it to be more of an exploit since it allows you to move around without having your cast interrupted. There's also the fact that you still have Straighter Shot ready to use, so it's more of a boon than a bane especially when Empyreal Arrow is ready.

If you still think there are issues, you are welcome to cry about them ad nauseam. Just don't try to make mountains out of molehills and actually take time to know what you're talking about, okay?