Following Nasrin: I'm done with AST too

[Bovinity]

A lot of people complain that AST has mana issues when it doesn't, and the lack of good healing CDs right now means we have to make the most of what we have. For some that's harder to figure out when they're used to boosting their healing by massive amounts with one easy I win button. When you're lacking vital skills, you have to come up with creative ways to achieve the same results.

Again, that's just not an argument. In fact, all you're doing is a agreeing with the people saying that AST is lacking right now.

A class lacking tools doesn't mean that it has some super high skill cap, or requires a ton of expertise to play. It just means that it's lacking tools. I don't think any designer intentionally creates a class that's underpowered with the intent of attracting "more skilled players" to it.

[Leiloni]

Again, that's just not an argument. In fact, all you're doing is a agreeing with the people saying that AST is lacking right now.

A class lacking tools doesn't mean that it has some super high skill cap, or requires a ton of expertise to play. It just means that it's lacking tools. I don't think any designer intentionally creates a class that's underpowered with the intent of attracting "more skilled players" to it.

I agree that the class is undertuned and needs fixes. I've been saying that everywhere. But I also think that because of that, it's currently harder to play. I never said that they were intentionally designed that way. Nobody did. Stop putting words in my mouth.

We're just saying that right now, it's harder to play and make the most out of it. That's a fact - AST's need to work harder to achieve the same or less results than a WHM or SCH. I think because of that, there are likely a lot of bad AST's out there that are making the class seem worse than it is and are adding to it's poor reputation. Yes it needs buffs and we are all anxiously awaiting that. But I see a lot of stupid complaints on this forum that are really non issues. We instead need to be discussing the things that actually are problems with this class.

[Bovinity]

I agree that the class is undertuned and needs fixes. I've been saying that everywhere.

So you agree that the class has issues and needs fixes. So...what are you arguing against, exactly? Because it just sounds like you're digging for an excuse to call people "bad".

[Ahlah]

It baffles me that there are players out there who prefer a class that has inferior healing power, subpar MP management and lackluster buff system. If you want a challenge try playing WHM without using healing cooldowns and SCH without spending aether stacks, there is no need to waste time leveling another job for that.

[Leiloni]

So you agree that the class has issues and needs fixes. So...what are you arguing against, exactly? Because it just sounds like you're digging for an excuse to call people "bad".

I'm saying we need to focus on the few things that we need to see fixed and stop whining about every little thing. People are way overstating the problems and it's getting out of hand. We're kicking ourselves in the foot here by giving the rest of the community a bad impression of the class when all we need is better healing cooldowns and some minor changes to our buffs. Oh and Noct spec needs to be better. But our basic toolkit is actually fine. It's not the best of course, but we can do everything. The class doesn't need some sort of major overhaul like people make it seem and outside of Savage Alex, most players should have no problem doing the rest of the content.

I mean let's take some complaints from this thread that are completely useless:

"All of our heals are weaker copies of the other healers, why shouldn't we have our own unique healing style?"

They are only actually weaker in Diurnal stance, but also cheaper mana cost (in both stances) and in Di we have faster speeds. So technically, the potency/GCD is the same on basic heals. That fast casting thing is our unique style, whether you enjoy it or not (that and the buffs of course). Also that is not the class's problem. Basic healing we are more than capable.

It's in heavy healing and emergency situations where we need help, and that means we need better cooldowns, not adjustments to our basic heals. I've seen some interesting ideas thrown out there in some other threads about ways to improve these CDs such as giving ED charges if we don't use it. I've seen some suggestions surrounding CU and CO as well, both of those need to be better also. Things like this could make a big difference.

"woooow i buffed 10% of my tank's defense....thats like totally awesome, like soooo coool, like really amazing, like wow"

If you want to complain about the usefulness of Bole, let's compare to the other skills. Sacred Soil is 10% AoE, we can make it 5% AoE. So here we have a comparable ability but not as good and gated behind RNG. This is an example of the minor card changes needed. The existence of 10% mitigation is not useless like many, and this poster, make it seem - it's actually quite nice. It's in the execution of the skill that we need improvements. However when compared to Eye for an Eye it's rather equal. Eye for an Eye you can cast on demand when off CD, but it's entirely RNG whether or not the tank even gets mitigation from it and how many mobs he'll get mitigation from. Bole is RNG if you get it at all (although you can Spread it), but when you do get it, it's 10% mitigation for everything that's hitting the tank with the ability to extend that buff with Time Dilation if you need to, or whatever RR buffs you may have also.

Our other buffs have similar issues. Everyone talks about Arrow in comparison to Fey Wind. A 10% buff, or 5% AoE, by itself seems nicer than 3% AoE. But again, we're gated by RNG and duration here. We could either use a buff to reduce/remove RNG, or increase the potency of the cards so that when we do get it it's worth it. I dunno what's best. But instead of just complaining all day that SCH is better, I would like to see some actual productive discussion about changes you would like to see happen.

"Also, the heals are expensive and kind of weak."

"It baffles me that there are players out there who prefer a class that has inferior healing power, subpar MP management"

I see a lot of mana complaints, even though we received fixes to our mana issues. This is honestly not a big issue anymore so why do people constantly talk about it? Do these people not play their AST's anymore or do they just not know how to play them?

Again, these types of complaints are detrimental to our cause. If you want the class to be fixed as much as I do, start talking about what really needs to be fixed and stop with the hyperbole. You want people to accept you into PF parties for non-Savage content (because honestly until we get fixes, I wouldn't expect to see Savage invites, so no point in whining when you can't do anything about it)? Most of the screenshots in the OP are Normal Alex and Bis Ex. AST's can do that stuff. Stop proliferating the idea that the average player is not capable of that content. Prove we can do that stuff while focusing on the needed changes to healing cooldowns, Noct sect, and card changes to make the buffs more vaulable.

[Bovinity]

Ok, fair enough, quality reply!

But yeah, the RNG is a huge issue to me. It's one thing for DPS classes, but as a healer? Bosses won't stop and wait for you to get that Bole, for example. DPS checks won't get a longer timer so you can try to draw that Balance again.

I'm just not sure how to handle all that without breaking the theme of the class right in half, though.

[Leiloni]

Ok, fair enough, quality reply!

But yeah, the RNG is a huge issue to me. It's one thing for DPS classes, but as a healer? Bosses won't stop and wait for you to get that Bole, for example. DPS checks won't get a longer timer so you can try to draw that Balance again.

I'm just not sure how to handle all that without breaking the theme of the class right in half, though.

I wonder if they could let us pick what cards we want to use, but still have a cooldown of some sort on each card? So compensate for the ability to choose by adding in something else. I dunno I have a flicker of an idea but I need to leave work and my brain is fried.

[Ahlah]

I see a lot of mana complaints, even though we received fixes to our mana issues. This is honestly not a big issue anymore so why do people constantly talk about it? Do these people not play their AST's anymore or do they just not know how to play them?

Changing Ewer effect from -MP cost to some weak refresh effect fixed our mana issue...

I can put up with AST weaker version of healing spells, but I can't do my job without MP. Is AST capable of raising multiple players without running into MP issue? Even when SCH or WHM are low on mana they still have plenty of MP free healing abilities to fall back on. ASTs only have two - one of them is on 40 second cooldown and the other renders them unmoving.

AST who are happy with the current job design do not understand how much they have leeched off their co-healers.

[kiraan]

I see a lot of mana complaints, even though we received fixes to our mana issues. This is honestly not a big issue anymore so why do people constantly talk about it? Do these people not play their AST's anymore or do they just not know how to play them?

I wouldn't call using your cards, that should be used to enhance your party, on yourself ( and even extended it with RR / Celestial) to overcome MP issue, a good fix.

We should be fine with MP regen without sacrificing buffs or abilities meant for the party and yet you see a lot of AST spreading an EWER for themselves and extending just their LA to be "fine" on MP.

[Jerichai]

We're just saying that right now, it's harder to play and make the most out of it. That's a fact - AST's need to work harder to achieve the same or less results than a WHM or SCH. I think because of that, there are likely a lot of bad AST's out there that are making the class seem worse than it is and are adding to it's poor reputation. Yes it needs buffs and we are all anxiously awaiting that. But I see a lot of stupid complaints on this forum that are really non issues. We instead need to be discussing the things that actually are problems with this class.

Funny, I see a lot of astrologian 'pros' blame the lesser skilled players for the community perception. I also see a lot of these so called pros choose to insult and drag these players through the mud. Have we considered trying to teach instead? I haven't seen much of an effort the the 'pros' side of the discussion to really sit down and lay out strategies and thought processes on these forums (is there even a guide out there). I've seen a tips and tricks post...but that's about it.

What I'm basically trying to say is it's kind of scummy to blame others for the class's perception issues to the community...and then make no effort to create of positive change for those players. Maybe they are playing bad. It wouldn't be the first time a higher skill cap class in an MMO got a bad perception because of players' experiences with those struggling to even stand on the ground floor. But you don't change that by belittling those struggling. Sure...you may drive some of the so called 'idiots' that I've seen referenced by multiple people in this thread, but that will never have a lasting effect or really change the predominant perception from the community. How about channeling all this negative energy into something that will help struggling astrologians be better at the class...such as the missing guide I mentioned earlier, or instructional videos?

Also, saying all the negativity on the healer boards about astrologians is causing the bad perception is silly. Most players don't spend a significant amount of time on the boards in general...and I suspect it's an even smaller number for those who actively peruse this specific sub forum. These negative preconceptions are based on experiences in game, where players feel that the content is harder when an astrologian is in the party, or if they don't see the tangible benefits of their buffs.