Oh SE, You completely missed the main problem with endgame crafting/gathering

[Aeyis]

Same here I've got 2 Miner Pieces and 2 Blacksmith Pieces.

Then I hope you enjoy having subpar equipment you cannot properly use for glamouring either, since it cannot be dyed.

[Kahnom]

Then I hope you enjoy having subpar equipment you cannot properly use for glamouring either, since it cannot be dyed.

Don't worry,I'm happy.

[Welsper59]

Then I hope you enjoy having subpar equipment you cannot properly use for glamouring either, since it cannot be dyed.

Until there's actual reason to strive for BiS, there's... well... no currently relevant reason to not go after those equips if that's what you want to do. People STILL argue in favor for spending millions to pentameld the 3.0 crafting BiS, when there is literally no good reason to do it. IMO, go subpar equipment with your own needed melds. Currently, majority CP melds are the absolute most useful thing to go for. If anything, 3.0 crafting has shown us to just spend what you want and do what you want. If you don't care to be in BiS, you don't have to be to make profit. Besides, in nearly every situation of the game, BiS is nothing more than a status symbol. Keep in mind the keyword there: nearly.

[chrillix]

Until there's actual reason to strive for BiS, there's... well... no currently relevant reason to not go after those equips if that's what you want to do. People STILL argue in favor for spending millions to pentameld the 3.0 crafting BiS, when there is literally no good reason to do it. nearly.

So you're saying we should wait until that BiS gear is needed, and then complain about how to acquire it? If you don't think it ever will be needed, then why is it even in the game? In either situation there is something drastically wrong with the system.

[Welsper59]

So you're saying we should wait until that BiS gear is needed, and then complain about how to acquire it? If you don't think it ever will be needed, then why is it even in the game? In either situation there is something drastically wrong with the system.

Well for starters, BiS has never ever been 100% needed to do endgame crafting. Mind you, BiS for crafting generally involves the overmelds, so that's primarily what I'm getting at. Pentamelding is generally NEVER needed unless you're lowballing the materia tier to save on costs of inevitable overmeld failures. I'm speaking from experience on that one, as I've always been able to reach minimum reqs for crafting endgame without going all out BiS melds for every single piece, until 2-star HW gear came out. Despite that, there's still no reason for it. Even when a new tier of minimum reqs comes out, BiS is not going to always be mandatory in every single way. Right now, for example, some melding of 3.0 60 gear + a couple pieces of non-crafted gear from red scrips already puts you at the requirements to do 2-star without food. Again, no point to hitting that level right now unless you actively want to. That right there gives the notion that it isn't mandatory to be in BiS everything unless you actively make it so for yourself.

You don't have to wait, but again... it's not needed and never has been, unless that's your goal, then so be it. It can be a problem to not find reason to get at least some of the current BiS goods, sure, but we're still early into it to really deem it even worth complaining about yet. Even with 2.0, 2-star combat equips weren't exactly game changing to acquire for progression in CoB compared to the much easier to acquire Darklight gear. If anything, the accessories sort of were for some cases, but that's about it.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Well for starters, BiS has never ever been 100% needed to do endgame crafting. Mind you, BiS for crafting generally involves the overmelds, so that's primarily what I'm getting at. Pentamelding is generally NEVER needed unless you're lowballing the materia tier to save on costs of inevitable overmeld failures. I'm speaking from experience on that one, as I've always been able to reach minimum reqs for crafting endgame without going all out BiS melds for every single piece, until 2-star HW gear came out. Despite that, there's still no reason for it. Even when a new tier of minimum reqs comes out, BiS is not going to always be mandatory in every single way. Right now, for example, some melding of 3.0 60 gear + a couple pieces of non-crafted gear from red scrips already puts you at the requirements to do 2-star without food. Again, no point to hitting that level right now unless you actively want to. That right there gives the notion that it isn't mandatory to be in BiS everything unless you actively make it so for yourself.

BiS cannot be a requirement to create the tools and gear for crafting. The reason should be obvious (Catch-22 : how do you make the BiS gear if it requires BiS gear to create).

But what you are overlooking is .. that 3.0 gear you talk about .. that WAS BiS prior to the new 2 star stuff. And it DOES require massive melding if you want to use it to create the 2 star now BiS stuff.

The expansion giving us a level cap increase threw a monkey into the works. Prior to the level cap going up, if you wanted BiS gear, you pretty much had to have the precious patch's BiS gear to make it. There were a few shortcuts you could take, but that certainly held true as the general guideline.

So, like raiding for new gear (why get new gear from the hardest encounters? Its not going to help you beat the already-beaten encounters, you can do that already) getting BiS crafting/gathering gear is in preparation for the next level of stuff to come along. Always has been, always will be.

Is current BiS needed for anything? Not yet - but once the next set of recipes comes out, which may or may not include a new set of BiS, the current CiS is going to be required to make them.

[Welsper59]

BiS cannot be a requirement to create the tools and gear for crafting. The reason should be obvious (Catch-22 : how do you make the BiS gear if it requires BiS gear to create).

But what you are overlooking is .. that 3.0 gear you talk about .. that WAS BiS prior to the new 2 star stuff. And it DOES require massive melding if you want to use it to create the 2 star now BiS stuff.

The expansion giving us a level cap increase threw a monkey into the works. Prior to the level cap going up, if you wanted BiS gear, you pretty much had to have the precious patch's BiS gear to make it. There were a few shortcuts you could take, but that certainly held true as the general guideline.

So, like raiding for new gear (why get new gear from the hardest encounters? Its not going to help you beat the already-beaten encounters, you can do that already) getting BiS crafting/gathering gear is in preparation for the next level of stuff to come along. Always has been, always will be.

Is current BiS needed for anything? Not yet - but once the next set of recipes comes out, which may or may not include a new set of BiS, the current CiS is going to be required to make them.

There's actually no overlooking on that end. When 2-star was introduced, 3.0 gear was no longer BiS. That being said, you really don't need to do a lot of the more costly melds to be able to do 2-star if you're all right with upgrading to red scrip gear for at least one slot. This isn't very different in hierarchy than how it was with 2.0 crafting when there was the AF BiS potential gear and the optional Patricians (which did require complete overmelds to justify using that over AF).

When the next tier of minimum reqs comes out, we probably still won't need complete BiS, as that has never been the case. If anything, we needed near it for endgame crafting, but there were always alternatives in some way with the gear set itself or with the melds required (which is a large part of what makes it BiS). Also remember that by that time, we'd have had enough time to have upgraded at least some, if not most, of our gear to at least the 180 scrip gear, if not managed to HQ and meld the i170. Which will likely be months from now, since 3.1 isn't likely to bring out gear of higher ilvl tier than what we have now. Absolute BiS will never be required without some form of cheaper alternative in some way, assuming any given moment in FFXIV's history is to be used as an example. Completionists and min/max players will certainly advocate total BiS gear and BiS melding, but that's their prerogative if possible, which isn't something everyone else has to conform to, given how its always been.

[Ibi]

Then I hope you enjoy having subpar equipment you cannot properly use for glamouring either, since it cannot be dyed.

Wait, when did they change it so that you couldn't use gear that can't be dyed for glamor? I must have missed that change.

I randomly picked a piece of gear and went with the BSM body
The difference between the i170 HQ melded, and the i180 token piece is 22 craftsmanship and 7 control. I don't call that miniscule.

It's impossible to reach those numbers, even if you used all Grade V materia. The closest you can come is +19 Craftsmanship and +7 Control or +22 Craftsmanship and +2 Control.

If you use all Grade IV materia, you can reach +4 Craftsmanship and +3 Control. At current prices on Hyperion, the materia would cost an average of 1.5 million gil.

[chrillix]

Snip

I hadn't considered the actual materia needed. Penta-melding t5's doesn't seem to be a realistic option (especially since we still can't convert gear for T5's!!!), but I could see using 1-2. I guess it's hard for me to sacrifice the option of being able to obtain higher stats when I don't know what the requirements will be for the next patches crafted items.

[Chrolo]

I hadn't considered the actual materia needed. Penta-melding t5's doesn't seem to be a realistic option (especially since we still can't convert gear for T5's!!!), but I could see using 1-2. I guess it's hard for me to sacrifice the option of being able to obtain higher stats when I don't know what the requirements will be for the next patches crafted items.

I doubt the 3 star recipes will need higher stats than red scrip gear can provide you. They would otherwise screw over every crafter who went for red scrip gear instead of the crafted version.