This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Zfz]

If not, you've probably never noticed that editing in advanced mode removes your default signature.

IIRC, if you reload the page after you posted your edits, your signature will reappear. It's just due to how the edits and new posts are added to your own browser view locally, so it has no access to stuff like your badges and your signature, nor the number of likes you've received (it shows up as "()").

[Dement]

Just an example, a bit extreme I agree, the best DPS in my opinion are those like BLM or even Summoners that, in case of hardship and they exist, will switch from DPS to temporarely healers, not for long, not forever, but they will do it, in this ensuring that the group survives, now you will agree with me that this will affect their DPS output correct ? so a player that is affected by the mentality that someone is IN a group rather than WITH a group will only see the numbers of said BLM or Summoner on the parser (let suppose there is one parser) as low and BAD, but will that person realize that the contribution of the BLM or Summoner was higher then the norm FOR the group ? I can tell you with 100% certainty that 90 % of the group will not see that and if the group fails, the BLM or Summoner will be kicked for poor performance, I am not saying is normal I am saying that in a group we are ALL responsible for its success or failure, no matter what you want to believe, and this is why the parser should never be implemented because of the incapacity of people to actually understand that numbers WITHOUT proper perspective means absolutely nothing, is not an addition, or a multiplication or a division, when you speak of numbers related to human behaviour (for lack of better words) they require to be put into perspective to have the TRUE picture, and this community is NOT able to do so in a mature and intelligent way, people cant even understand that they play with a group rather then in a group.

You are creating obscene assumptions to make your arguments. Within this portion alone you have made the assumption that once given a parser, no one is capable of observing a fight anymore. In your extreme example where a BLM or a SMN takes up healing duty thus dropping their DPS, your healer/healers would have to be dead. If your healer/healers are dead I would presume that most people are going to realize that and see that something out of the norm is occurring. People have to keep this in mind for a maximum of 10 minutes if you're doing a fight from beginning to end before comparing your parser... and if this is happening every single run then the parser isn't going to be the concern, the concern will be why can't your healer's stop face tanking the ground. There are quite a few things that can occur which will drop someone's DPS but most people who are at endgame are capable of observing why that is. If someone isn't doing any mechanics, isn't doing anything beyond dealing damage and their DPS is still hundreds lower than the Main Tank... there's a problem there and no way to hold that person accountable.

So yes, if someone is apparently or is weaker, the others should compensate, in a way or another for the good of the groups. What you all want is everybody perfect so hat nobody needs to pay attention to their neighbourg and thus why the pro-parser are so adamant about this, they want a tool that tells them they

Again, no one is asking for perfection. You don't need to be a world class raider to clear Bismarck EX but you do need to be somewhat competent at your job. The other illustrations against you was essentially that at a certain level there is NO amount of compensation that can exist. If an encounter requires 2000 DPS split between 2 members and member 1 does 1000 DPS and member 2 does 400 DPS then it is impossible for member 1 to compensate by adding an additional 600 DPS to their output. It cannot be done. So are you just supposed to constantly do the same thing over and over again, wiping over and over again so that you don't hurt member 2's feelings?

You may not like what i said, which is totally fair, but if you take the time to think a few seconds out of the box that DPS MUST absolutely totally maximize their DPS or they are totally useless and bad, you will admit that my so called toxic logic is not exactly so, the intend of having the parser is a good intend but again, the use that will be done by the majority of the player, often too immature for that kind of tool, will be, as usual, totally toxic.

I think it's time that you think out of the box. You have narrowed your perspective to this insane level where the vast vast majority of the player base are elitist assholes who will kick if you're not producing the very tip top maximum that your job can do. I am of the opinion that this is not the case. Will it happen? Sure. Is it going to be so rampant that you will never have another group that doesn't kick you? I doubt it. Most people who are for the parser don't care if your job is capable of doing 1.1k DPS and are going to get upset if you're only doing 1050 DPS. Hell, most people don't care if you're doing 800 DPS... as long as you meet the requirements that the encounter has built into it.

Want another proof? people use already parsers but they cannot say it officially as they would be banned, how many in this very same thread did say (or implied of course they dont want to be banned) that they use one, saw that some were not performing as they deemed it should be but couldnt say it and so couldnt kick the guy ? and how many did say that numbers of a parser need to be put into perspective, other than me, there is one or two others, the 98% are exactly in support of my lets call it argument against the parser.

I understand though that what is not in favour of parser is by definition toxic right ?

Mei

They can kick the guy already. They just can't tell him an exact number. You don't need a parser to eventually figure out who is doing a terrible job, but it will help you do it faster. If your group wipes to DPS checks multiple times, someone will start to pay attention to what the DPS is doing. It is perfectly acceptable if you're the leader already to say "XXXX your DPS is low, I'm going to remove you." You just can't say "XXXX your DPS is 350 while the encounter needs you at 700, I'm going to remove you." Now which one actually helped the person being removed? In both he is told his DPS is low... in the first example he has no idea how low. Is he almost there? Does he need to tweak a few things or does he need a huge overhaul? He'll never know. He will be removed either way, you don't need to say you have a parser to kick someone from YOUR party. They do not have an entitlement to be in a party you created and you can kick them for whatever you feel like, you just can't harass them that their DPS is a specific number.

Being against a parser is not toxic by definition. The word toxicity is brandished about rather freely around here, usually when talking about elitists. However, I was trying to contend that if you know your DPS is too low for an encounter and you join a party asking you to be at a certain criteria anyway, you're just as toxic to the community as the elitists which are so hated. The same could be said for joining a farm party if you've never been in the fight. The Party Finder was created so that people could recruit likeminded and similarly skilled players... by knowingly circumventing this, it is toxic to the community.

[Sapphic]

The Party Finder was created so that people could recruit likeminded and similarly skilled players... by knowingly circumventing this, it is toxic to the community.

Bad players aren't toxic! Its the good players that arent doing everything for them, carrying them through content, compensating for them being bad. For politely giving them some advice on how to improve their rotation, oh no, you cant be trying to be helpful you must be offering advice to be spiteful and elitist.And what do youmean players who dont know how to play their job cant join kill parties and just spend their time eating a piece of succulent prime roast dirt while the party kills stuff for them! If you do that you are totally being Elitist. Pfft, expecting bad players to make an effort, no one got time for that :P

That was sarcasm or me just being silly, take your pick XD

BTW Meis point is irrelevant, just look at there characters on Lodestone. still in darklight, last achievement early 2014. Yeah, doesn't play.

[Ashkendor]

Healing is also something a BLM can do isnt it ? therefore is also an ability that can be used right ? why would you complain about that ?

A BLM heals for something like 450-500 hp. The mobs in the 60+ dungeons and raids autoattack for thousands. A BLM isn't going to get much of anywhere trying to be a healer in the long term. Topping someone off with a Physick during downtime is one thing, but your best shot at getting through a lot of the encounters is to stick to your role.

you prefer to whipe then have someone contribute TO THE GROUP (keep in mind you are playing with a group that wants what you want win) by stepping aside for a short moment or longer one to help the group to win even if that means less power...how more silly can it be...

you sure you want to play with a group?

You'd rather hit enrage than win? Okay. You sure you want to play with a group?

Most groups I know of would like to clear the encounter.

That is what I am trying to say, parsers will give you dry figures of what your dps, skills and what not are, but the numbers dont tell you the contribution of the person TO the group no matter what said person decided to do for the good of the group, e.g. my example and that maybe is because of that guy that you made it to a win or lastest longer to give an opportunity to make it...ever thought about that ?

But it does. The parser picks up every skill they use and who they use it on.

I swear people just cant think otherwise then seeind DPS = high number when any job/class has so many variables...sad if you ask me that to you someone that uses an ability HE HAS got, no matter the reason, in my example a secondary one, equates to being bad. Silly judgement dont you think.

A better example would be a black mage using Apocatastasis or Eye for an Eye.

BLM heals are pretty sad since our HP scaled up but their MND stat didn't.

Just me though, you can continue to be convinced that you sole are right, personalyl I would like a parser but not with the type of immature, uneducated players we have around here, that cant even talk with others without using bad words every two otehrs words (in-game that is) on the Forum is strictly forbidden to insult so people pay more attention.

See, there you go again saying that because of a few bad players the rest of us should go without.

[dekal]

What surprise it is that people continue replying to the same with about the same argument other players already discussed in their posts. The damn quote don't copy paste the whole person s post if it is about the topic others already talk about just place "..." Or "snip" or are you ppl laxy

[ShaneDawn]

BTW Meis point is irrelevant, just look at there characters on Lodestone. still in darklight, last achievement early 2014. Yeah, doesn't play.

He had some weird logic anyways. I stopped reading at the healing BLMs being the best players.

Good players can do good damage. Good players can deal with mechanics. Good players can adapt, maybe doing some healing as dps on Leveling Roulette. But a great player can do everything well. If Mei's logic was right, no parse ever would mean nothing. Sorry if I hurt your feelings Mei, but generally someone on the same class, on equal gear doing more dps than you is most likely better than you.

[Ashkendor]

BTW Meis point is irrelevant, just look at there characters on Lodestone. still in darklight, last achievement early 2014. Yeah, doesn't play.

Huh. You're right. Their forum join date is Nov 2013, so they only played for 3 months I guess.

Maybe it's an abandoned alt or something?

[Maero]

I do not know of a real solution other then what others have said about posting must do a minimum of 700dps or something.
I know my first run at it, only myself as blm and a smn pushed over 700 dps but would wager that now that we know the fight our other dps in the FC do more as well.
But 700 sort of is a minimum on that fight to be honest.
Can you not run with your FC OP?
As for parser, i want but do not want it implemented. If it would somehow work to just show your own parse i am ok with that but if it shows parse of other members i can see that being abused and people getting vote kicked.
At the same token though if you just would use df you really should not complain as it is to be expected that some dps may not be up there.

[Mercutial]

It's kind of a Catch-22. Let's be honest for a moment, an in-game parser that could be seen by all party members would be used to attack other players. That's a fact. Does not matter if this a toxic or non-toxic or whatever community, it's just the way of the world. We all run the instances. Constructive criticism is NOT the norm. Just being real.

That being said... I'm still all for it. The good outweighs the bad in my opinion. It's a MMO. Get thick skin or get out. Use the criticism to fuel your improvement. It works this way in all competition. Be it sports, work, school, etc.

[Xtrasweettea]

I am so glad I am not the only person having trouble with checks from DPS. DPS Credit Union takes too long to mail me my checks after I order them.

http://www.dpsfcu.org/