This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Evergrey]

I really can't see why they can't at least put a DPS parser on a striking dummy.

Seriously. There's literally no harm that can come out of that.

The whole reason with a striking dummy is to check DPS so yeah, striking dummies need a parser imo.

[aerialrave]

I would like to see a marker with set values determined for the job and item level which changes colour based on thresholds of DPS for instance say 0-100 DPS Is too low for your item level and job then it would show a red marker on your HUD or even on the enemies selection circle, if 100-200 DPS is "normal" or say "average" (lets say average DPS is sufficient for most content) It would be yellow and then 200-300 DPS would be "good" or a high standard, DPS high enough to be able to complete more difficult content, Savage/Extreme primals. There doesn't need to be numbers or any information sharing if square want to avoid harassment but a simple colour to indicate when you yourself are underperforming should be enough to encourage someone to ASK for help or look up ways to improve their DPS.

This is actually a pretty good idea, but I would limit it exclusively to Striking Dummies, and not in any sort of live content, because it would just confuse people further. We already have a similar system of vague color indicators in effect in the Enmity system so I don't see why it can't be applied to damage as well.

[Mizukaru]

Basically what need to be done is either...

A) SE stops making dps check fights or reduce the dependancy on bare minimum numbers in those checks.

or
B) 'legalize' or introduce an in game method as part of the UI for players to see their own productivity and be able to optimize from there.

...
...

I like you.

[Ashkendor]

numbers are cold they dont tell you the TRUE contribution to the group of this or that person.

Actually, a parser shows you every single skill that the person used over the course of the fight, who/what those skills were aimed at, how often they missed/critted, and how much damage/healing they did.

Just an example, a bit extreme I agree,the best DPS in my opinion are those like BLM or even Summoners that, in case of hardship and they exist, will switch from DPS to temporarely healers, not for long, not forever, but they will do it, in this ensuring that the group survives, now you will agree with me that this will affect their DPS output correct ?

Kudos to BLM/SMN that throw out a few heals in a pinch, absolutely. If it's a chronic issue where you have DPS going off their main job to help heal, clearly there is an issue with the healers though. Some of the DPS checks we have now are so steep that if you have DPS constantly healing instead of, y'know, DPS'ing, you won't clear.

So yes, if someone is apparently or is weaker, the others should compensate, in a way or another for the good of the groups. What you all want is everybody perfect so hat nobody needs to pay attention to their neighbourg and thus why the pro-parser are so adamant about this, they want a tool that tells them they

a) they are perfect
b) the others are bad

It's entirely possible for one player to be so weak that you can't possibly compensate for them. We're coming in at the very base level of gear again. We don't have 30-40 item levels over the content to stomp it flat. Honestly, I think it's very selfish to go into a party and expect the other seven people to help pull your weight. I don't think I'm perfect by any means but when you see a DPS putting up less damage than a Paladin in Shield Oath there is a fundamental problem. So what are we supposed to do if we have something like that? Sorry, but if someone is keeping seven people from clearing they have to go. It's no different than a tank that can't keep hate or a healer that can't keep the party standing. Why do people want to molly-coddle DPS players so much?

a SMALL minority wants it for their own betterment, the vast majority wants it so that they have an official reason to kick others or supposedly official reason and feel better about themselves and so congratulate themselves about their so brilliant performace of the moment but cant see that, in another group, the same output could potentially be seen as bad.

And this is just completely made up. Of the people that have posted indicating that they support parsers, most of them have been saying that they want it for a self-diagnostic tool or to help their raid party. Who the hell goes into Duty Finder and parses random pugs just to harass them about their DPS? Maybe there's a few, but that's the kind of person that was going to go out of their way to make someone's life miserable anyway. I don't know how many times I have to say it. Parsers don't make people mean, but mean people have access to parsers.

You may not like what i said, which is totally fair, but if you take the time to think a few seconds out of the box that DPS MUST absolutely totally maximize their DPS or they are totally useless and bad, you will admit that my so called toxic logic is not exactly so, the intend of having the parser is a good intend but again, the use that will be done by the majority of the player, often too immature for that kind of tool, will be, as usual, totally toxic.

You'd be surprised just how much is taken into account. When we go over numbers in my static, you frequently hear comments to explain unusually low DPS. "He died." "He disconnected." "He got broken out into landslide." "He got quarantined six times." "He had to raise the healers three times." "The tank lost hate and the boss was on him." "He couldn't get his positionals because someone kept messing up AoE placement." Seriously, people understand that sometimes shit happens. You don't seem to understand that a parser is just a tool. If someone smashes his hand with a hammer, does that mean that hammers should be outlawed because they're unsafe? No, it just means that a single individual used a hammer wrong, while most people use it correctly.

Want another proof? people use already parsers but they cannot say it officially as they would be banned, how many in this very same thread did say (or implied of course they dont want to be banned) that they use one, saw that some were not performing as they deemed it should be but couldnt say it and so couldnt kick the guy ? and how many did say that numbers of a parser need to be put into perspective, other than me, there is one or two others, the 98% are exactly in support of my lets call it argument against the parser.

Honestly, the pro-parse and anti-parse camps seem pretty evenly split based on the forum posts. The funny thing is, the pro-parse arguments are the "warm and fuzzy" statements saying that they'd like to use them to be helpful. The anti-parse camp is screaming bloody murder about the potential for abuse, creating hyperbolic arguments and exaggerated theoretical situations, and generally saying they think that because a few "elitists" (that word is so overused, lol...) might misuse the feature it absolutely 100% should not be introduced. Either way, there's nowhere close to 98% on either side of the issue. Made-up numbers don't prove anything.

[Palinq]

Not everyone is capable of playing the game at the level you're looking for. The best suggestion is to take note of those who do not perform and not reinvite them anymore. When you start finding people who can perform at the level you want - ask about adding them as a friend, that way you can get groups together better in the future. If you think you can help someone who is doing low dps - send them a friendly whisper saying you think they're doing something wrong and offer them advice.

[scarebearz]

but again numbers are cold they dont tell you the TRUE contribution to the group of this or that person.

Just an example, a bit extreme I agree,the best DPS in my opinion are those like BLM or even Summoners that, in case of hardship and they exist, will switch from DPS to temporarely healers, not for long, not forever, but they will do it, in this ensuring that the group survives, now you will agree with me that this will affect their DPS output correct ?

If you have a BLM playing as a "temp healer" and losing DPS during a fight with an enrage, then it's a bad BLM tbh.

[Werhusky]

3. I can't even tell DPS that they aren't doing enough for the phases so that they can work on something without fear of a violation of ToS.

I'm on PS4 i cannot parse but I still can tell if a DPS is just there for deco and I feel free to say so if needed Had yesterday my first actual tries Bis EX and it was always 1 DPS spot that got exchanged and as we suddenly couldnt get past P1 anymore I just said the fact that we replaced 1 since last PF and DPS dropped to Nirvana....

[ckc22]

And here, you're dead wrong. Sometimes rotations (in particular, oGCDs) have to change as you gear up, due to Skill/Spell speed. More SSPD == Shorter time between GCDs == less room for your oGCDs to go in. This can, depending on your latency and the specific oGCDs, cause GCD clipping to occur, which is almost always a DPS loss. Mostly an issue for MNK and NIN, tho.

--Erim Nelhah

Here we're talking about like fractional dps loss.... people doing optimal rotations getting fractions of seconds of clipping aren't the people doing dps that is half of the other dps in the group.

[MeiUshu]

If you have a BLM playing as a "temp healer" and losing DPS during a fight with an enrage, then it's a bad BLM tbh.

that is where you and me differ in vision, what is important is success of the fight, if someone has to step aside of what is his normal role, albeit Healing is also something a BLM can do isnt it ? therefore is also an ability that can be used right ? why would you complain about that ? you prefer to whipe then have someone contribute TO THE GROUP (keep in mind you are playing with a group that wants what you want win) by stepping aside for a short moment or longer one to help the group to win even if that means less power...how more silly can it be...dont you think you have a problem of mentality and in this example, your parser will tell you how low the dps was and, as you just wrote, how bad the BLM is because he was helping with Healing now and then maybe even more then now and then and not tell you that if you made it to a win, maybe with more difficulties, it was because of that BLM helping out another fellow GROUP (note the GROUP) member. For people like you, or rather of your same mindset, the parser will just be a tool to be used to throw out of a group others that do not do what YOU want them to do simply because you are incapacitated to see the whole picture....you sure you want to play with a group?

That is what I am trying to say, parsers will give you dry figures of what your dps, skills and what not are, but the numbers dont tell you the contribution of the person TO the group no matter what said person decided to do for the good of the group, e.g. my example and that maybe is because of that guy that you made it to a win or lastest longer to give an opportunity to make it...ever thought about that ?

I swear people just cant think otherwise then seeind DPS = high number when any job/class has so many variables...sad if you ask me that to you someone that uses an ability HE HAS got, no matter the reason, in my example a secondary one, equates to being bad. Silly judgement dont you think.

This is also the reason why these kind of discussion are totaly sterile, two sides often then not incapable of making an averted judgement on someone else's capacities/abilities because so certain that THEIR vision is the only viable, as long as this doesnt change, there will remain the superiority complex, we arent all copied pasted people, a poor performance today may be a wonderful tomorrow and even worse day after....we are human and using a mechanical tool (well even if virtual) to judge the performance of someone has never been working...there are too many variables that itnerfers even more so where human and technology meet so closely like a virtual game.

Just me though, you can continue to be convinced that you sole are right, personalyl I would like a parser but not with the type of immature, uneducated players we have around here, that cant even talk with others without using bad words every two otehrs words (in-game that is) on the Forum is strictly forbidden to insult so people pay more attention.

Mei

[Radacci]

when ina group and forget that being part of a group means something that you all forget, the weaker link, not necesseraly the badest, needs the rest to get through, if someone is low, the rest that is sooo good rom what they say, should compensate and be done and over with, no buts, no ifs.

so basically the weakest ppl should get carried, and never learn anything? nice idea...
instead they should do what they can, to improve, and stop holding 7 other ppl, back.

others can only compensate so much. a group shouldn't need ilv 200 gear, for Bis-EX, just to compensate for a shitty player, just to carry them.

in a group the fault of a failure is NOT on the shoulder of one person, only, is a group work and as such is the failure of all.

this is the stupidest thing i ever heard.
if a tank fails to hold aggro, everyone will die - it's the tanks fault, not the entire party.
if healers dont heal, everyone will die, and it's the healers fault, not anyone else.
ofc if other ppl are crappy and getting hit by everything, it makes it harder for the healers.
and you're right it's a team effort, but other DD can't suddenly parse 2000dps, to overcompensate someone who's bad DPS.
if a DD is bad, the first thing they should do, is go to job forum here, and read up on good rotations, then go practice on dummies, until they can do decent numbers.
if they can't meet minimum requirements, despite being overgeared, they got no business doing end-game content - holding an entire party, back.