This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Monoman]

https://youtu.be/SlrW0MY_n7g?t=52s

How to DPS 101 - A WoW perspective but has a lot of carry over.

But on a serious note DPS can feel very hit and miss to the point I can notice it when running dungeons sometimes and I don't look at numbers or run anything serious.

They need to give players more tools to either A. Benchmark their own DPS in game and/or B. Have more repeatable tutorials hammering in what all your skills do and your basic rotation.

I agree with this completely. It avoids the toxicity of other trinity based mmo communities while still giving dps the tools they need to be more effective. I'm at a complete loss for improving my dps but I would like to test things on my own and monitor what is most effective without using external tools.

[MeiUshu]

I thank you for your post. That is exactly what I want to aim at, people often then not play IN a group rather then WITH a group. Numbers of a parsrs need to be interpreted, numbers as I said are cold, they need to be analyzed to be able to tell if someone truely wasnt doing its job and the reason of why it wasnt the case needs also to be thought out, for the good of a group, the weakest link needs to be helped by the stronger links, it happens more than people think of, healers do it, when one is not exactly good, the other will put you some more Healing at the expense of the mana but is done for the good of the group, what I see most of the time though are people joining a group wanting the absolute best, press keys, dont even look what is around them, complain when according ot them someone is not good enough because their precious time is being used, the use of parser will only ensure that they can do it officially, but again numbers are cold they dont tell you the TRUE contribution to the group of this or that person.

Just an example, a bit extreme I agree,the best DPS in my opinion are those like BLM or even Summoners that, in case of hardship and they exist, will switch from DPS to temporarely healers, not for long, not forever, but they will do it, in this ensuring that the group survives, now you will agree with me that this will affect their DPS output correct ? so a player that is affected by the mentality that someone is IN a group rather than WITH a group will only see the numbers of said BLM or Summoner on the parser (let suppose there is one parser) as low and BAD, but will that person realize that the contribution of the BLM or Summoner was higher then the norm FOR the group ? I can tell you with 100% certainty that 90 % of the group will not see that and if the group fails, the BLM or Summoner will be kicked for poor performance, I am not saying is normal I am saying that in a group we are ALL responsible for its success or failure, no matter what you want to believe, and this is why the parser should never be implemented because of the incapacity of people to actually understand that numbers WITHOUT proper perspective means absolutely nothing, is not an addition, or a multiplication or a division, when you speak of numbers related to human behaviour (for lack of better words) they require to be put into perspective to have the TRUE picture, and this community is NOT able to do so in a mature and intelligent way, people cant even understand that they play with a group rather then in a group.

So yes, if someone is apparently or is weaker, the others should compensate, in a way or another for the good of the groups. What you all want is everybody perfect so hat nobody needs to pay attention to their neighbourg and thus why the pro-parser are so adamant about this, they want a tool that tells them they

a) they are perfect
b) the others are bad

a SMALL minority wants it for their own betterment, the vast majority wants it so that they have an official reason to kick others or supposedly official reason and feel better about themselves and so congratulate themselves about their so brilliant performace of the moment but cant see that, in another group, the same output could potentially be seen as bad.

You may not like what i said, which is totally fair, but if you take the time to think a few seconds out of the box that DPS MUST absolutely totally maximize their DPS or they are totally useless and bad, you will admit that my so called toxic logic is not exactly so, the intend of having the parser is a good intend but again, the use that will be done by the majority of the player, often too immature for that kind of tool, will be, as usual, totally toxic.

Want another proof? people use already parsers but they cannot say it officially as they would be banned, how many in this very same thread did say (or implied of course they dont want to be banned) that they use one, saw that some were not performing as they deemed it should be but couldnt say it and so couldnt kick the guy ? and how many did say that numbers of a parser need to be put into perspective, other than me, there is one or two others, the 98% are exactly in support of my lets call it argument against the parser.

I understand though that what is not in favour of parser is by definition toxic right ?

Mei

[Mog77]

And here I am pushing 1.4k in a1s, yall know how to make a summoner feel some type of way

[Terribad]

Want another proof? people use already parsers but they cannot say it officially as they would be banned, how many in this very same thread did say (or implied of course they dont want to be banned) that they use one, saw that some were not performing as they deemed it should be but couldnt say it and so couldnt kick the guy ?

That's because they can't tell the guy "Hey I can see that your dps is lower than average". So since they can't say anything to help correct it and the guy isn't going to own up, simple solution is to kick. If it wasn't a bannable offense I'm certain a lot of people would offer advice. THEN if the player refused, kick.

[Ladon]

So yes, if someone is apparently or is weaker, the others should compensate, in a way or another for the good of the groups. What you all want is everybody perfect so hat nobody needs to pay attention to their neighbourg and thus why the pro-parser are so adamant about this, they want a tool that tells them they

a) they are perfect
b) the others are bad

No. Just no.

There is an inherent flaw with the game where you expected to meet certain mechanics without any feedback from the game. All the game returns to you is single damage numbers. No human is capable of tracking what is more important: DPS NOT flat damage per hit. A damage parser is a way to provide PROPER feedback for the games mechanics.

Look at is from this perspective. The game has two important pieces of feedback for the other two roles:

For tanks there are aggro bars and indicators. Now imagine if those were removed. All of the sudden you don't have feedback to tell you what is actually going on when a tank loses hate. Now imagine that enemies keep running around killing all the non-tanks. Oh but here is the tank say "I'm using all my hate skills, I don't know what's going on." Oh but you aren't allowed to parse hate generation to actually know how much hate is actually being generated by everyone. Guess you can't kick that tank for not doing their job well, can you?

For healers there are health bars. Imagine the fun if health bars disappeared for everyone. Now people keep dying left and right, but that healer keeps insisting they are casting heals on you. Sure hope it's not Cure I when you actually needed a Cure II or something. But hey you have no actual way to know what the rate of incoming damage is and you can't be parsing that to know how much health your party members have left. Can't kick that healer for not keeping people alive can you?

These are the scenarios the game has put us in by requiring very specific DPS but then not giving any actual feedback on DPS being generated. And now DPS have become some protected class under policy that shouldn't be allowed to be kicked for not performing their expected job function. Because right now poor healers and poor tanks get the swift boot from repeated mistakes and those decisions are supported by feedback from the game. You don't really see a whole lot of complaining about being worried about being judged and kicked from groups because they suck at healing or tanking, do you? That is because the feedback is indisputable and there is NO reason that similar feedback shouldn't be provided for the DPS roles just as it currently is for healer and tank roles.

Party HP bars were added long ago to MMOs because they were important feedback. People used to have to parse hate in older games that didn't give hate feedback. Again MMOs caught up and started providing this as feedback because it was important for the game. People were parsing enemy HP to get a percentage because mechanics were triggered by HP percentage. Again this very game was updated and provided HP% feedback because it was important for the game.

There is no reason DPS should not be provided as feedback in this game just like all of the above. It is already being parsed by a lot of people because it IS important just like all of the above feedback is. It's time to stop hiding behind what is simply poor feedback from a video game that needs to change just like all of the above did to meet the requirements of the game.

[Greyfrost]

So yes, if someone is apparently or is weaker, the others should compensate, in a way or another for the good of the groups.~Snip.
Mei

No, you can't. in truly hard contents like Alex Savage or even in easier contents compared to Alex Savage, let's say, Ravana Extreme, THE DPS CHECK IS REAL. and it's a surewipe if you can't get past that check. No amount of compensating can get you past checks.

Also for a side note, I remember seeing people offering to clear contents for gil, and they said they still can't carry 1 person through Alex Savage, talk about compensating for the good of the group. Just no.

While I do agree that it's better to be kind and helpful to people and make them learn better what their jobs can do, some people are just helpless.

I remember trying to teach a monk in Bismarck Extreme that never uses positionals, what did I get replied with? ACTUAL QUOTE "dun tell me hwo to play me job. kill urslef."

The only real way to compensate for the good of the group like you stated, is either by getting better blabla, or leave the group and start from scratch.

[Mizukaru]

What really grinds my gears is when I'm pulling 712 dps average in grit as a Dark knight, and 956 out of grit, and I see dps classes in almost full i190 gear barely pulling 600 dps. I generally end up being the highest dps in every group as my Dark Knight. And nothing can be done or said.

[Klamor]

To the people who agree that parsers are tools to be used by the knowledgeable, I applaud you. To the rest of you, /facepalm.

Why does it seem like the only ones who complain about parsers or other such tools are the ones who would most likely be called out by that very tool? A person mentioned before that this was a team effort (and then immediately got shit for saying it, because people are such geniuses, obviously) and that team comes in the form of a static, a PF group, or even a DF group. Yes, just because you formed your group in the DF doesn't mean that you should generally have to accept total shit as the result (not that I'm saying all DF groups are awful, but you know there are some doozies...) The whole point is that a team is only as strong as its weakest link (chain cliché, yes.) If your weakest link isn't interested in improving, then kick that asshole out. But how do you know who the weakest is? That's right, the tools you have in your possession. If someone is "too cool for school" then they don't belong in the classroom, and they certainly don't deserve the diploma. "No child left behind" doesn't really fit here. Where that does fit is out in the open world, where you don't have 3-23 other real, live, people who are depending on your aptitude to accomplish a common goal.
If you want to say that you'll unsubscribe when SE finally gets around to implementing a mod-able interface (because they said they would, way back in the day... might have been a Wednesday; I don't remember) then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I wish I could actually quote all the people (like Ladon) in this thread that really have the right idea, but unfortunately that'd make an incredibly long post, and the number itself is too embarrassingly small compared to all the naysayers and witch-hunters. Because progress and improvement is a terrible thing that should never be allowed to thrive.

[Kaedan]

What really grinds my gears is when I'm pulling 712 dps average in grit as a Dark knight, and 956 out of grit, and I see dps classes in almost full i190 gear barely pulling 600 dps. I generally end up being the highest dps in every group as my Dark Knight. And nothing can be done or said.

And you think a parser is going to change that?

Listen, I'm not against having parsers for those that want to check their personal DPS. Great, it's a tool to help you improve. But adding an in-game parser isn't going to solve ANY of the problems people bring up with players not putting out enough DPS. Pointing out evidence that they aren't doing enough is going to make them just as angry and indignant than if you tell them without evidence.

The problem is bad players. And it's not a lack of knowledge or skill... it's a bad attitude. They are too lazy or too apathetic to give two ****s. No parser is going to change that.

[aerialrave]

There are 2 things that I would like to point out specifically regarding the Bismarck Extreme trial, without falling into the DPS/parse trap discussion.

The first is that a lot of people are wasting buffs and big cooldowns on the adds. If you literally save everything for that moment you board the chitlin your DPS will skyrocket. This just involves people not knowing the fight. Food (and possibly stat pots) can help out a lot here too. Worried about not killing the adds in time? Perhaps your group is triggering the Dragon Killers too early. They should be used as late as possible to buy as much time as possible to take down adds, heal up, and stall for cooldowns to reset. Again this boils down to not knowing the fight (not triggering Dragon Killers at the latest possible time). Discuss this with your group, preferably BEFORE queuing up so you can get ready with food and pots (perhaps you can be a philanthropist and distribute some to your group if you're so desperate for a clear).

The second thing I want to mention is that THE CHITLIN CARAPACE DOES NOT NEED TO BE KILLED ON THE FIRST DRAGON KILLER SET. This single fact alone is what's holding a TON of people back from getting their clears. If you can't do it in 1 pull, then yes, your DPS is low. But it is not the complete failure that everyone thinks it is! It just means you will have to work that much harder on the final phase and do everything perfectly. You may even need to Limit Break on the elemental dragons (gasp!). It's such a shame that people are stuck in this mindset that everything has to be done ONE certain way and CANNOT be done any other way. It is a really sad experience to see wipes (and consequently disbands) because people want to force "all-in" on the Chitlin (stay until it dies, or we die). Also a shame when you can't clear the dragons in time and people refuse to Limit Break because it's "necessary" for the final phase. So I just wanted to point out, it is okay to not kill the chitlin on the first pull. And it is okay to use Limit Break on the dragons. You can still get a clear with both of those things happening.