This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Mizukaru]

that's what really makes it hard. I can easily tell when someone is actually trying and is just under geared compared to someone who is geared and either has no idea how to play the game, or is just damn lazy. There have been times in EX farm groups where level 50s will out dps the 60s. I know whenever someone used a parser and I was in the group, every time they listed my dps I wanted to do better and try to be the top. But it seems now whenever people hear their dps they just go "tough love, I can play shitty if I want to because SE protects the terrible, now Ima report and get you banned because you obviously care enough to want to finish this fight"

[Ryel]

It just means you will have to work that much harder on the final phase and do everything perfectly.

How do you quantify harder? And who is it that has to do so? The Healers? The Tanks? Which DPS?

[Mizukaru]

I think there should be some allowance to using it to better game play. I can understand how using it to upset people in party finder is a HUGE no no, and I can completely agree it should stay that way, PF is for people who are from all player groups. But if you're making a premade in DF and really want to down something, I feel like you should have the right to let people know they are lacking, and if they aren't improving you should have the right to kick them for it. It's not fair to the person whose taking the time and energy to get content done be held back by one person who obviously jumped into something they cannot handle.

[Klamor]

How do you quantify harder? And who is it that has to do so? The Healers? The Tanks? Which DPS?

Everyone has to work harder. The island itself has lower HP because Bis will have slammed it twice (after the initial one) instead of once. If your dps is low in the first phase, then your dps will still be low in the later phase; the Carapace will take longer to kill, which means Bis will slam the island more and the adds will die slower and damage the island more... What happens is you get yourself into this "slow enrage" sort of scenario that yes, just like any slow enrage anywhere else, you still have a chance to succeed. The deal is that the lower your dps is, the higher your inherent risk becomes. That risk of getting to the very end, only to result with a wipe due to the island being destroyed or the party being overwhelmed with phases of adds. There's a big picture take on all of this. The good players will see both sides of the spectrum at the same time. They see the consequences of choices made. The choice to kill Chitin the first go-round, or not. The choice to LB the snakes, or the Carapace. The choice to have underperforming party members, or to just kick them out and hope for better ones (since all of these /rants are regarding the PF/DF).

Edit: The quantifiable evidence shows when you have someone in your party parsing and you realize that you need your tanks to equip a couple slaying accessories; or you need your healers to split duties of healing, and dealing damage so that you can have the Oppressor 0.5 spawn with Oppressor at 60% HP instead of the 65% or more that you saw before when both healers were healing (doing their job) and both tanks were wearing full fending (also doing their "job"). And that's not a knock on the dps either. Yea, they were also doing their job.

[Ryel]

snip

This only sidesteps the question and misses the point i was trying to make.

How do you quantify harder?

If you have no metric to tell how well you were doing to begin with other than whether or not the carapace died on the first pass then how can you say what "working harder" actually is? Simply saying "push more DPS" means nothing if someone is already doing so optimally and for someone who isn't or doesn't know how, unless they are aware of where they are lacking or what they should be capable of you might as well be speaking another language.

The whole party needs to work harder? Does this mean Tanks and Healers are picking up the slack? By how much? What can they comfortably get away with before their own play becomes reckless?

Just saying everyone needs to work harder (while true) doesn't really tell you anything, it's like telling a relay team to "run faster" without giving each member their run times, yes the team NEEDs to perform better, but where can improvements be made?

EDIT: Responding to your edit

Edit: The quantifiable evidence shows when you have someone in your party parsing and you realize that you need your tanks to equip a couple slaying accessories; or you need your healers to split duties of healing, and dealing damage so that you can have the Oppressor 0.5 spawn with Oppressor at 60% HP instead of the 65% or more that you saw before when both healers were healing (doing their job) and both tanks were wearing full fending (also doing their "job"). And that's not a knock on the dps either. Yea, they were also doing their job.

And that right there is the crux of the issue.

[Felessan]

The main problem with Bismark Ex that it gives no real reward for clear, so people never returns to it. As a result you are bound to stuck with newbies and failures until you get your clear by some miracle.
Fight itself is easy if you get at least half-decent geared and skilled players.

[Klamor]

snip

Point. Match. We're on the same team here.

[Havenae]

Basically what need to be done is either...

A) SE stops making dps check fights or reduce the dependancy on bare minimum numbers in those checks.

or
B) 'legalize' or introduce an in game method as part of the UI for players to see their own productivity and be able to optimize from there.

You can't have it both ways. You can't require ridiculously specific numbers and base fight design at 98+% full optimization under the most pristine conditions to be able to clear content, but then tell people "Oh but you're not allowed to measure it yourself. and If you do *banhammer*!" That's stupid.

That's like telling someone to dig a hole to a specific depth, handing them a shovel but telling them they're not allowed to use any type of measuring tool to make sure they do deep enough. Then telling them they're fired if they don't match the depth or if they use a measuring tape.


I understand people dislike parsers. I know it's because they THINK it breeds exclusion. Here's a newflash.. look around you. Exclusion already exists in this game at levels more rampant than I've not seen since World of Warcraft. And that's WITHOUT parsers, that's WITHOUT a gearscore mod that tells you what their ilevel is just by hovering a cursor over them. It happens regardless. So that excuse no longer works.

Ultimately, if you're not willing to attempt to learn a rotation or what order your priority skills need to be in to play the game, then I don't know what to tell you. That's really all on you and not someone running a parser or telling you that you can't come along because your dps sucks. I understand if you're just not that great but you've put in the effort to learn. so you do "OK" dps. Maybe your reflexes aren't as quick to mash that popped cooldown at the exact moment you need to hit it. Or maybe you have a trash connection a lot of the time. Those things are understandable and both SE as well as groups should consider those things.

But there's no excuse to not know what you're doing for any class. There are plenty of places you can go on the 'interwebz' to learn things about your class like ideas on optimized rotations,m cross class skills, best in slot items, the works. There's posts on these forums in the specified section (dps, tanks, healers), on reddit, FFXIV wiki. There's videos on youtube, and a whole host of other sites with shloads of information on them. It's as simple as a google search. There's no excuse other than you're lazy.

[Ryel]

Point. Match. We're on the same team here.

Agreed, i wasn't trying to go at you, it's just an unfortunate position regarding the DF (and the game's meta) currently.

[Higashikata]

I agree.

Extreme mode primals should be hard, but the DPS checks shouldn't be so hard that people actually need to learn the basics of their class to beat. I think people should be allowed to mash their skills in any order they feel like and still have more than enough DPS to clear any fight.