A suggestion regarding height.

[Kaedan94]

Wouldn't work for some of the races. The Au Ra, for instance, have a very distinct feature which is the men tower above the women. It would destroy the aesthetic of the race if they equalized the height of the two. The proportions would be ALL out of whack.

However, for the races that don't have a large difference like the Au Ra, they could make it so that the tallest female option would be taller than the shortest or average male. That makes sense.

[Samcaesar]

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Explain your logic, because I do not see how you got to that conclusion out of anything I said. Like.. Sun Seeker women are the hunters of the groups while Moon Keepers are either integrated into Gridanian society (As well as the Duskwights are) or they keep to more traditional Moon Keeper culture, which as far as we know, doesn't limit girl Miqo'te to running around and adventuring, they are hunters by nature after all.

And no, the Miqo'te have a higher female birthrate than the men, this is pretty well accepted and understood within the lore.. It's literally the reason why (Generally speaking) Moon Keeper men are nomadic and reclusive while Sun Seekers have their Nunh/Tia system. It's not like a 51/49 split, there's a much larger population ratio of girl Miqo'te than there are men.

Uh, several times I've defined each race only keeps to their own race with height.. That means Elezen minimum is the current minimum for the girl Elezen, while their max be changed to be the maximum for Elezen dudes. I even clarified earlier "I don't want Lala sized Roes or vise versa". I really am not getting how you're coming to your conclusions. By the way, currently there is no way for me to be "Tough, tall (For the race) demi-beastman" and "girl" so it's not really possible to choose a race I want.

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Uh, pretty sure lots of RPGs have "bada**" character personas, they're just mainly (Or well, only) dudes. Like heck, Cloud is literally seen the stereotypical stoic bada** of JRPGs. Just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't.. And whenever it doesn't come at the detriment to those who are the majority (Note the purpose of this thread is neither the boy or girl of any race is taller or shorter to the counterpart of their own race, therefore allowing the majority to still have plenty of short girls to their liking), I don't see why SE shouldn't do it.

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The issue is it's not really a distinct/unique aesthetic, plenty of fantasy races do it already, and you could easily argue "Gross differences between body masses with males and females" was already done with with the Roegadyn. Like, the imho difference between M!Roes and F!Roes is equal to the differences between M!Au Ra and F!Au Ra, just with the thickness of the body compared to height (Keep in mind, which one of these is easily changed, while the other requires entirely new models). Plus, the whole "short girls, tall men" aesthetic is the exact point of equalizing them, it's a limiting aesthetic that just ultimately restricts player option and turns some people away from a race (IE folks who want to be a short guy Au Ra or a tall girl Au Ra). Anyways, I'm fairly sure the other half of the Au Ra Aesthetic (IE, the tail, scales, horns, and limbal rings) is killed the second you put on some armor that covers any of those features, should the Au Ra be kept from wearing armor in favor of that aesthetic? No, that's just silly, hence why the other bit, which is they shouldn't really be excluded from this as well.. Besides! It's not like SE can't say "This Au Ra tribe actually found out how to get tall girls/short men", they do plenty of weird biology things with the Xaela tribes (Being able to sustain themselves on bodily fluids, massive lung capacities, 1/3 twin birthrate, "rust colored" skintones that changed due to their enviroment), they could easily make a minor addendum with "The Au Ra also have massively gross differences in body mass between men and women* Though some tribes have managed find ways to make their women as large as the men/men as short as the women, they remain a small rare minority" which keeps the overall aesthetic (as it's about the majority of race) while still allowing for an excuse for players to have tall Auri women and short Auri guys.

I mean, it might mess with the proportions a little (Though, it's not like tall people have different proportions from average height people normally), but let's not kid ourselves SE already screws up with making models make sense, look at how some helmets magically squish horns inside, or numerous amounts of clipping, the really awkward tails with some gear (Or the one suddenly thin tail option).. When the end result is "Hey you don't have to be short as a girl Au Ra" I'm sure any player who wants that is going to not care too much about it.

Au Ra aside (Which while I think they should, I can at least see the reasons why not for them), I don't see why we couldn't do every race what the Lalafell do, ie the height of the race is equal for the men and women.

[Kaedan94]

I mean, it might mess with the proportions a little....

You are highly underestimating the proportion issues it would cause. They would have to do complete redesigns to accomplish it.

Au Ra aside (Which while I think they should, I can at least see the reasons why not for them), I don't see why we couldn't do every race what the Lalafell do, ie the height of the race is equal for the men and women.

As I said, I think it would work for all races except Au Ra and Roegadyn to do the following: Tallest female option would be at least equal to the average male option. That way you can make a tall female. For some, like midlanders, you can probably even make the tallest female option equal to the male, or only a bit shorter.

The tallest woman in the world was Zeng Jinlian. She was 8' 1.75" tall. The tallest man was Robert Wadlow. He was 8' 11.1" tall. Both of them were well outside the "norms", but the man was still MUCH taller than the woman.

Average male height in Italy (which as the smallest difference in height and still maintains a high average) is 5' 10" for men, and 5' 6" for women. The country with the smallest ratio of height difference and highest average is Azerbaijan. Their men are 5' 7.5" and women are 5' 5" (only 2.75" difference).

It's a simple fact that men are generally taller than women. Can some women be taller than some men? Of course. Which is why I think the tallest female option should be at least as tall as the average male option (except with Au Ra and Roe).

[FallenArisen0990]

Uh, pretty sure lots of RPGs have "bada**" character personas, they're just mainly (Or well, only) dudes. Like heck, Cloud is literally seen the stereotypical stoic bada** of JRPGs. Just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't.. And whenever it doesn't come at the detriment to those who are the majority (Note the purpose of this thread is neither the boy or girl of any race is taller or shorter to the counterpart of their own race, therefore allowing the majority to still have plenty of short girls to their liking), I don't see why SE shouldn't do it.

*sigh* Completely ignored the fact I said created characters...

[Samcaesar]

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I think you're vastly overestimating how much of an issue it'd be, it's not like Roegadyn women look super wonky at either 1 or 100. Their heads might be a little big, but a full grown adult that's tall has generally have similar proportions of a full grown short person.

Plenty of women can be taller than men, the max for girls being only average on the guys, as you're suggesting, doesn't solve this issue still. The point is for each race the minimum, median, maximum, et cetera heights for that race should be the same for men or women, you can go "Well, the average height for men and women is x and x of this race" and still allow a girl Miqo'te to be 5'8. There point is there's plenty of girls that are just as tall as tall as a lot of guys, just as there's plenty of short guys as short as, restricting the players ability to make something that's still within reason (IE girls as tall as the current max height for men and guys as short as the current minimum for girls) is silly an unneeded, hence the point of the topic. Making it so there's still a height difference just less of one, between the two doesn't solve any issue it just makes the problem slightly less worse.

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They're tall enough to the point where I'm shorter than most I encounter! 5 inches makes a difference.

*sigh* Completely ignored the fact I said created characters...

My apologies, I did! Either way, fairly sure Highlander, Roegadyn, Miqo'te, Elezen, and Auri men are all various types of Bada** looking men, while the women of each of those races are notable less bada** looking with the Highlander and Roes, while Miqo'te, Elezen and Auri women just straight up don't look very bada** at all, so it doesn't matter much

[Kaedan94]

I think you're vastly overestimating how much of an issue it'd be, it's not like Roegadyn women look super wonky at either 1 or 100. Their heads might be a little big, but a full grown adult that's tall has generally have similar proportions of a full grown short person.

You're not a big fan of comprehension, are you? Of course there aren't any proportion issues from 1-100... because their proportions are designed to work within that range. But if you tried making a female Au Ra as big as a the tallest male Au Ra, or a male Au Ra as small as the smallest female Au Ra, the proportions would be GROSSLY out of whack.

Plenty of women can be taller than men, the max for girls being only average on the guys, as you're suggesting, doesn't solve this issue still. The point is for each race the minimum, median, maximum, et cetera heights for that race should be the same for men or women, you can go "Well, the average height for men and women is x and x of this race" and still allow a girl Miqo'te to be 5'8. There point is there's plenty of girls that are just as tall as tall as a lot of guys, just as there's plenty of short guys as short as, restricting the players ability to make something that's still within reason (IE girls as tall as the current max height for men and guys as short as the current minimum for girls) is silly an unneeded, hence the point of the topic. Making it so there's still a height difference just less of one, between the two doesn't solve any issue it just makes the problem slightly less worse.

You're also not a big fan of reading either, apparently.

Yes, it's a well known fact that some women are taller than some men. But it's also a well known fact that men are generally taller than women. So there's nothing unrealistic about women being shorter than men in this game.

That being said, please note that I said for some races, it would work to allow them to have equal max and minimum heights (I specifically cited midlanders). And that I think they could at least change it so that the max female height is equal to the 50 male height.

What you're not getting is that THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR ALL RACES (there, I put it in caps and bolded it for you). Au Ra and Roes in particular, because their proportions wouldn't allow you to equalize their heights without dramatic and complete redesigns.

[Samcaesar]

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Au Ra aren't "demons" either, demons are voidsent and Au Ra aren't from the void. Their motif is "demonic" but that's only because just calling them dragons felt weird with Heavensward having lots of us killing dragons. The most recent concept art design, which closely resembles their current design, was still labeled dragon. Considering their current design is a meld of the "Demon" and "Dragon" option, they're Dragon/Demon themed. They're dragon/demon people in the same way Miqo'te are cat people.

Pretty sure the Succubi we've encountered have all been fairly tall, Elezen-esque looking women, who are bigger than Roegadyn, even the generic mobs. Pretty sure they're taller than Roegadyn even as "generic mob" status. Every voidsent in FFXIV exist to do one thing "Consume aether", so their "Super lanky Elezen Lady" look fits that very well. Voidsent who consume a lot aether get bigger and bigger and get more powerful (Ascians being an exception.. But they're odd ones). Average ones (IE generic mobs) still aren't anywhere near Auri women size or proportions, so even with a "Demon" motif they're still pretty small for a succubus esque demon lady.

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Oh fun, Ad Hominem! Chill the heck out.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ab8d1f43cf.jpg One of the various "Tallest men on earth" notice something? His proportions work pretty darn similar to the average guy on the left.. Just massive! Kinda similar to how it works in game. Yes, it'd look a little awkward with a 7'3 girl Au Ra, they'd be a good bit thicker, I'm not denying that, but their proportions wouldn't be "GROSSLY out of whack", it'd look wonky the same way how that tallest man in the world looks wonky.

I never said "It's unrealistic for men to be taller than girls", you're getting huffy and accusing me of not reading when you're putting words in my mouth. I've stated several times "Women can be as tall as men (And vise versa)", it's why I started the thread, because I think it's silly that girl PCs of a race can never be as tall as a boy PCs of the same race (And vise versa) and that's a nonsensical restriction.

I don't get why you'd talk about "at least" when you don't disagree with the idea with some of the races.

I'm pretty darn sure having the option to have a tall Auri women doesn't affect you in anyway, not like you'd have to deal with your Auri woman suddenly looking "GROSSLY out of whack", so... Why do you care so much if it supposedly "DOESN'T WORK FOR ALL RACES"? If it doesn't affect you in anyway and isn't something inherently bad, so why on earth do you care so much about it? Plus, you've yet to post any evidence that it's look "GROSSLY out of whack", it wouldn't be any different than how "GROSSLY out of whack" characters look when they're shrunk down or sized up using glitches/third party clientside options. With glitches in mind... http://embed.gyazo.com/37d9b98c82c5f...3957701936.png Does that really look "GROSSLY out of whack" with proportions? Let me answer that for you, no, it doesn't, because that's literally how the height already works for in this game. If you want to complain about proportions somehow becoming "GROSSLY out of whack", then you ought to start the campaign to change how "GROSSLY out of whack" the girl Roegadyn proportions are. By the way, no matter how much you want to say "Girl Roegadyn were MEANT to have a 1ft height range" it doesn't change the fact that a girl Roegadyn at 6'3 has the exact same proportions as one at 7'3 (So "GROSSLY out of whack" in your words.)

[Kaedan]

bunch of confusing randomness

1) Did you even look at the picture? Robert Wadlow isn't even close to the same proportions.

2) "Looking awkward" (it wouldn't be "a little", it would be "quite") would be caused by being grossly out of proportion.

3) Having grossly disproportionate characters very much affects other people. You aren't the only person that sees your character. Unless you are never around any other player ever, others see your character. They can't "turn you off". And by your argument, we should be able to have nudity in the game. Having the option to be nude doesn't affect you in any way.

4) It would probably work fine to have same height for all races but Au Ra and Roegadyn. So in that you get no opposition from me. But it would not work for the aforementioned because of design choices SE made. You could not have a female Au Ra or Roe that is as tall as their male counterpart, or a male as short as their female counterpart without major proportion issues. And you seem to think that means an aesthetic problem... No. That would mean a modeling/hit box problem. If you tried to scale up a female Au Ra to the tallest male height, the proportions would not fit within their model and would go well outside hit box limits. As stated, they would have to completely redesign the race to accomplish what you want. They are never going to do that... especially for something as ridiculously minor as height.

[FallenArisen0990]

Their motif is "demonic" but that's only because just calling them dragons felt weird with Heavensward having lots of us killing dragons. The most recent concept art design, which closely resembles their current design, was still labeled dragon.

Someone obviously didn't do the Lv 50 DRK quest. Siggy will explain to you how the Au Ra were treated, especially in Ishgard.

Au Ra are demons.

They're not reptilian. And there are no rules on what size succubi can be. If anything, they're fairly normal sized, else they wouldn't be able to do what they exist to do. And if we're talking about the succubi mob, they're pretty small. Only the boss ones have been big.

That's just wrong. Now Yoshi said he said we could try to create a succbi like Au Ra, they are not demons. Looking demonic and being demonic are two completely different things.