Dragoon Punished at lvl 58 - What needs to be done with Wheeling Thrust

[whiskeybravo]

Yeah, still going on about it, because people still aren't getting it and it's something that ought to be addressed.

Some people like me aren't going to get it. It's literally the easiest part of the BotD mechanic. What's wrong with gradual complexity anyways? You don't think the devs had that in mind when they designed it? Nearly every aspect of the game involves gradual complexity.

[Hyrist]

Does not need to be addressed. Really.

Again Dragoons are looking at their classes in isolation, forgetting entirely that other classes have similar "dip" periods in their class development and advancement while still netting an overall significant performance gain from 50 to 60 that adds interest to game-play while maintaining (and in some cases rectifying) class balance.

In this case I would say Wheeling Thrust is similar in nature to Ruin III - which is not useful at all upon receiving it and nets a loss in performance. Worse so for the Summoner as using it at all at the level they receive it is a major DPS loss, where as a skilled Dragoon breaks even, or can even improve if luck favors them.

With the adjustment, it retains the 'net gain' even when used outside of position and gives Dragoons 2 possible locations for extra bonus damage, rather than just one. (in situations when Flank is disabled for hitting, you now have a 50% chance of being able to hit rear for that bonus instead, and vise versa, looking at you Ravana.)

So no, I don't consider it a nerf. It widened our angles for attack. In situations where mobility or enemy angles are not effected, it does nothing to harm. (save making you move 1-2 steps if you're properly positioned.) In situations flanking or Rear attacks are disabled or risky (say an AoE is covering it.) You have a 50% chance that your skill requires the safe location.

[whiskeybravo]

In this case I would say Wheeling Thrust is similar in nature to Ruin III - which is not useful at all upon receiving it and nets a loss in performance. Worse so for the Summoner as using it at all at the level they receive it is a major DPS loss, where as a skilled Dragoon breaks even, or can even improve if luck favors them.

Just looking through stuff, does mnk's Meditation fall in the same category? I don't have mnk leveled so I'm not sure, but you get meditation at 54 with no way to use it til 58?

[ColdestHeaven]

Just looking through stuff, does mnk's Meditation fall in the same category? I don't have mnk leveled so I'm not sure, but you get meditation at 54 with no way to use it til 58?

Nope, at 58 you get another skill which lets you use the meditation stacks - but the original meditation skill actually turns into forbidden chakra (350 potency hit) since the beginning.

Also, I really wouldn't compare Ruin III to Wheeling, lol. It starts being a DPS increase after, but at the very least it does - and it does not increase the level of difficulty at a later time without any gain, which was the entire point of this thread which should have stopped several pages ago. Nothing like this would have happened if they made Wheeling and Fang available at the same level, IMHO. I'm not even sure if I already said that in an earlier post here.

[Hyrist]

Also, I really wouldn't compare Ruin III to Wheeling, lol. It starts being a DPS increase after, but at the very least it does - and it does not increase the level of difficulty at a later time without any gain, which was the entire point of this thread which should have stopped several pages ago. Nothing like this would have happened if they made Wheeling and Fang available at the same level, IMHO. I'm not even sure if I already said that in an earlier post here.

Ruin 3, is worse than Wheeling Thrust, at time of release. Again. Wheeling Thrust expands the angles in which you can get a bonus from. Yes, it's RNG, but the fact that you can avoid a trageted skill when you were at someone's flank, and shift only slightly to the rear to get the bonus damage is still there.

Again, I don't see 2 steps being a major complexity increase. For Summoners, it's a flat out loss to use the skill until you get Dreadwyrm Trance to make the skill remotely useful.

And Dreadwyrm increases the difficulty of the class as managing its skills appropriately in your rotation is key to getting effective use out of it, as well as Ruin III.

Benefits of Wheeling thrust, though RNG, are existent from the start.

[GrizzlyTank]

Nothing like this would have happened if they made Wheeling and Fang available at the same level, IMHO. I'm not even sure if I already said that in an earlier post here.

Heck not even any reason for F&C and WT to be split, they could have added it all onto Fang and Claw, so that you would not even have to deal with the unresponsive and unreliable macros. And i't somewhat fits if you look at a lion casing it's pray with it's fang's in the back and claws on the flank.

[Leonus]

Heck not even any reason for F&C and WT to be split, they could have added it all onto Fang and Claw, so that you would not even have to deal with the unresponsive and unreliable macros. And i't somewhat fits if you look at a lion casing it's pray with it's fang's in the back and claws on the flank.

Well, the introduction of the 50/50 proc makes the class fun for me. If they change it, especially when there is technically nothing wrong with it, would upset me immensely.

[GrizzlyTank]

Well, the introduction of the 50/50 proc makes the class fun for me. If they change it, especially when there is technically nothing wrong with it, would upset me immensely.

Merge WT into F&C and call the buffs "enchanced fang" for back and "enchanced claw" for flank, and make something else out of WT.

As it stand WT is a downgrade for F&C which just doesn't feel right when player are given one mechanic at 56 only to have it altered at 58.

[Altanas]

Uh....Life Surge?

No. Not Life Surge.

In the 60 quest, the NPC uses a 20 second ability called Drainstrikes which drained a crazy amount of HP on every hit. It was basically a high level Drain Samba.

The reason why I suggest it as replacement ability is that it could be cast on yourself or on a party member, so it brings utility and a different perspective to DRG.

Its also a fundamentally different skill to what we have (F&C and WT essentially being the same skill..)

Its also very appropriate from a lore perspective given that quest line is all about, in essence, "lifeleech"

[whiskeybravo]

Merge WT into F&C and call the buffs "enchanced fang" for back and "enchanced claw" for flank, and make something else out of WT.

As it stand WT is a downgrade for F&C which just doesn't feel right when player are given one mechanic at 56 only to have it altered at 58.

It's not "one mechanic", it's 1 part of a 4-part mechanic that isn't realized until lv60. more and more it sounds like people just want easy mode.