WAR love is out of hand. Twelve forbid the other Tanks stand out in any way.

[Kaith]

The slashing debuff should just be considered constant regardless.
If there's no WAR, there should be a NIN.

While in some cases there might not be either, I don't think that would be the default assumption when comparing.
Either you always compare both with and without the debuff, or with the debuff as a constant since it's not exclusive to WAR.

I disagree with that but I understand opinion is going to differ there. I just don't like the notion of people having to play certain jobs which is probably why I feel that way (mainly because I've hopped between jobs for static purposes multiple times now and it's annoying. So I wouldn't want to tell other people they can't play the job they want, they have to level up and play the job that best suits us instead)

Like I said though, the main problem for me isn't PLD's OT damage, I'm fine with that. The problem for me is if you use a WAR MT instead of PLD right now for Alex Savage there isn't really any added risk of dying and the WAR will survive just fine. Which makes WAR better suited to both MT'ing and OT'ing for the most part due to the strict DPS checks. The advantages of taking a PLD MT aren't as relevant as doing more DPS right now (the mobs being ill suited to PLD's toolkit obviously doesn't help either)

PLD's strengths exist, they just aren't as relevant on the endgame content right. Down the line that might change but we can only judge with the content that's in front of us right now.

[Tila]

snip.

It doesnt make WAR a must have, it means WAR or NIN are. There are plenty of classes you need to bring to get those one or two things you need.

And once more you're making sweeping generalities and not entertaining any possibility other than the ones you say must happen.

[Rei_Fails]

PLD's strengths exist, they just aren't as relevant on the endgame content right.

Disagree, in this video you can see for yourself how the damage mitigation for PLD vs WAR is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuSEqjWfGFc
I took much more damage than Shinzee did, bearing in mind he always had more/stronger mobs on him than I did. This is where one of PLDs underrated strengths comes in to play. PLD taking by far the least damage in most encounters, allows others to do more damage, ie: healers. You may also notice that I spent quite a large time in Deliverance in that video, purely because Shinzee's mitigation was strong enough to tank so much at once, which enabled me to DPS more. Even at the end of my video he deliberately takes mobs off me to allow me to change stance and push the phase, whereas I guarantee I would have required much more healing attention had I been the one to take from him.

PLD is great, and is always relevant, since it brings a lot of strengths to groups that can't be measured in simple DPS numbers, as mentioned above. It'll always be the lowest DPS as MT, but since it's such a potent "safe" tank, it can effectively increase the groups performance.

[Kaith]

Ok simple question.

You're entering Alex Savage and have to keep the same composition for all stages (purely because of Eso gearblocks). Your options of MT are WAR or PLD, which do you take? (This is purely MT, the one you don't pick does not go to OT slot).

The rest of the party composition can be anything you like so you can have a WAR OT or a NIN in the party if you want.

I know that I personally would rather take the WAR regardless of the rest of the set-up.


EDIT: For clarification I didn't see the below quoted post when I posted the above.

Disagree, in this video you can see for yourself how the damage mitigation for PLD vs WAR is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuSEqjWfGFc
I took much more damage than Shinzee did, bearing in mind he always had more/stronger mobs on him than I did. This is where one of PLDs underrated strengths comes in to play. PLD taking by far the least damage in most encounters, allows others to do more damage, ie: healers. You may also notice that I spent quite a large time in Deliverance in that video, purely because Shinzee's mitigation was strong enough to tank so much at once, which enabled me to DPS more. Even at the end of my video he deliberately takes mobs off me to allow me to change stance and push the phase, whereas I guarantee I would have required much more healing attention had I been the one to take from him.

PLD is great, and is always relevant, since it brings a lot of strengths to groups that can't be measured in simple DPS numbers, as mentioned above. It'll always be the lowest DPS as MT, but since it's such a potent "safe" tank, it can effectively increase the groups performance.

Isn't A2S the only place where this comes into play in current endgame though?

It doesn't in A1S.
In A2S it does as you showed.
I don't have A3S experience to judge there but no group has cleared A3S with a PLD yet have they? I imagine next week with i200 weapons in play we'll see that though.
I am assuming A4S is back to largely magical damage like A4 normal?

So it only really comes into play for 1 of the 4 Alex floors doesn't it? If I'm wrong there, I'm happily admit it as I haven't personally stepped into A3S or A4S.

[Rei_Fails]

A2S is the only place where this comes into play in current endgame though isn't it? It doesn't in A1S.

Not exactly, any encounter, adds being irrelevant, can be strengthened by a Paladin's simple ability to take less damage overall. In A1 yes you're correct, PLD doesn't bring much to the table, since it's a heavy magic damage based encounter, with Halone being a physical debuff. So naturally Storm's Path on one and Reprisal/Delirium on the other is quite strong. That said, PLD can easily mitigate through that entire fight with no problems due to the reliable nature of their CDs. Not as well as DRK, but still better than WAR, and in any encounter a stable secure tank does open up breathing room for others. Also, like I said, it's very easy to stance dance in that encounter, meaning PLD can easily match DRK dps.
PLD is great in A3, and WAR does actually struggle in certain points of the fight where the other two don't.

[Kaith]

Then I'll stand corrected on A3S. I haven't personally gone in there and was going off the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, no group has cleared it using a PLD due to the DPS check. Which will probably change next week with i200 weapons I'd guess.

[Ayuris]

The slashing debuff should just be considered constant regardless.
If there's no WAR, there should be a NIN.

While in some cases there might not be either, I don't think that would be the default assumption when comparing.
Either you always compare both with and without the debuff, or with the debuff as a constant since it's not exclusive to WAR.

However chances are that you wont have the same benefits of the debuff regardless of there is a warrior and/or a ninja in the party.
Take A1S for an exampe, when the second oppressor enters, the slashing debuff either stays or goes with the warrior.
Meaning even if the entire party can benefit from the debuff, only the warrior and ninja is guaranteed to have the constant benefit since it will be applied to the their targets IF they are attacking.

[Virin]

And in what a month when gear is gathered and raids switch to single tank like they always do none of this matters

[NFaelivrin]

And in what a month when gear is gathered and raids switch to single tank like they always do none of this matters

Single tanking never became viable in FCOB and given that Savage seems to have specific offtank mechanics (Oppressor 0.5, Quarantine, etc.) I doubt it will become here either.

[Freyyy]

This topic is out of hand