WAR love is out of hand. Twelve forbid the other Tanks stand out in any way.

[Kaith]

You're not using controlled testing or factual values. You are using heresy to form an opinion.

Are you saying that the PLD number is too low or that the WAR number is too high? I was using the WAR parse numbers provided by someone in a thread on here. The PLD numbers I can go verify right now if you need.

EDIT: It was this post http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3205434. The links seem to be broken right now but it had the WAR at 1054 DPS iirc which lined up what with other people had told me and previous parses I had seen. The PLD damage lined up exactly with what I did on a dummy parse. So it seemed credible enough.

[Disc]

Are you saying that the PLD number is too low or that the WAR number is too high? I was using the WAR parse numbers provided by someone in a thread on here. The PLD numbers I can go verify right now if you need.

Uncontrolled tests do not provide valuable numbers. You need the exact same gear/food/composition/skill/attributes/time, and both using equally optimum rotations.

You are overexaggerating the STR debuff. But yeah. PLD is very slightly ahead of WAR in physical mitigation, specially if they can time Sheltron with a tower shield. Also it is not about WAR "spamming" mitigation as much as WAR putting more oomf when mitigating each buster. I'm not arguing who is better though. I am saying the discrepancies (outside of DRK's gap between magic and physical) are negligible in all cases.

Also WAR MT / PLD OT has an overall DPS increase over the opposite. Trust me. Been this way since 2.0.

Halone STR down is basically a physical Storm's Path, it's huge. Ignoring stance against tankbusters a WAR is looking at IB+Raw 36%, IB+Raw+Veng 55.2%, or IB+Veng 44%. A PLD has Rampart+Shel 36%, Rampart+Shel+Sent 61.6%, or Rampart+Sent 52%. You could argue the value of Halone vs Storm's, but then you're looking at it on a per fight basis with emphasis on handicapped PLD. PLD OT sustained damage due to auto-attack bonus has potential, but PLD is prone to TP issues WAR lack. PLD OT in the past has only been more beneficial due to Unchained resulting in a lower DPS loss for WAR tank, and more enmity than a Sword Oath PLD.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

You totally chose to ignore Thrill of Battle. A direct increase of 20% EHP. If you think EHP is not mitigation you're just wasting time on technicalities. IB+ToB is an EHP increase of 50%. IB+TOB+Veng is an increase of 114%. IB+ToB+Veng+Raw is a ridiculous increase of 167%.

Outside of Inner Beast, Defiance and Deliverance have no damage mitigation difference. WAR can slip into deliverance whenever he's not about to get his face rearranged and handed to him for extra DPS.

TP issues in a real fight almost do not exist. 1) All fights currently have breaks, all of them. Exceptions were T8 and T11. And they don't matter any more. 2) This is a team game. All of the melee DPS are prone to TP issues and your BRD/MCH WILL recover your TP. Believe it or not, it's how PLDs got through in the past.

[Disc]

You totally chose to ignore Thrill of Battle. A direct increase of 20% EHP. If you think EHP is not mitigation you're just wasting time on technicalities. IB+ToB is an EHP increase of 50%. IB+TOB+Veng is an increase of 114%. IB+ToB+Veng+Raw is a ridiculous increase of 167%.

Outside of Inner Beast, Defiance and Deliverance have no damage mitigation difference. WAR can slip into deliverance whenever he's not about to get his face rearranged and handed to him for extra DPS.

TP issues in a real fight almost do not exist. 1) All fights currently have breaks, all of them. Exceptions were T8 and T11. And they don't matter any more. 2) This is a team game. All of the melee DPS are prone to TP issues and your BRD/MCH WILL recover your TP. Believe it or not, it's how PLDs got through in the past.

You're right, I did not count thrill of battle. It operates on a different level, providing a set buffer.

At base 25,000 damage favoring Defiance HP boost(no heal) against tankbusters a WAR is looking at IB+Raw+TB 50.8%, IB+Raw+Veng 70%%, or IB+Veng+TB 58.8%. A PLD has Rampart+Shel 36%, Rampart+Shel+Sent 61.6%, or Rampart+Sent 52%.(avg~3700buffer)

However, this mitigation decreases as enemy damage scales in proportion to WAR HP, PLD is pure % based mitigation. The value I used was based on A1S, there will be times when you see much more damage.(A2S for example, Hallowed or bust) The timer is also troublesome at 120 seconds as opposed to the 60-90second PLD/DRK CDs most fights are built around, making every other tankbuster a best case scenario, but likely 1 in 3. If you would like to do the math on an optimum rotation for all four floors...

WAR stance dancing can actually be counterproductive now. Boomcannon for instance does damage dealt based on how far you are from max HP. A PLD sitting at 5000/5000HP no buffs will take 1 damage while a WAR who popped Defiance might just die.

Currently in AS1 & AS2 I can & will bottom out my TP as both DRK & PLD unless I take DPS hits to cast spells or Shield Swipe, I'll let you know about 3 & 4 when I get there. BRD/MCH will replenish TP/MP based on party needs and when it's appropriate. They're not going to start singing Paeon 60 seconds before a phase change because the PLD bottomed out TP before everyone else.

So basically that breaks down to...STOP

WAR did 8.5% more than PLD. DRK did 3% more than PLD. The sky isn't falling.

[Kaith]

Uncontrolled tests do not provide valuable numbers. You need the exact same gear/food/composition/skill/attributes/time, and both using equally optimum rotations.

The quoted link was the same person using the same gear and food. It had PLD at 836 DPS and WAR at 1054, he has since removed the parses though.

The PLD numbers I can reproduce myself

Gear - http://i.imgur.com/CY5GO3P.jpg (The top non-meld accessory is slaying, the i176 is purely because the melded accessories are i150)
Sword Oath Parse - http://i.imgur.com/AHa7Jo0.jpg (Not a care given to maintaining enmity)
Shield Oath Parse - http://i.imgur.com/XfG5Y2S.jpg (This was rotating all 3 combos)

The next combo would have put me TP dead.

Food is just NQ Deep-Fried Okeanis (30 SkS, 10 Det) because it's what i had laying around in my invent so not optimum. Obviously slashing debuff is not present. Nor is the STR party buff.

https://youtu.be/XhLfcwsqeOE
Video of parse from pld/drk/war in their OT role same gear, all with str pt bonus, same food slashing debuff for pld/drk brought by a warrior outside of party, also goad/tp regen from machinist was used to parse all 3 over 5 mins.
For ppl too lazy to watch:
WAR 1021 dps
PLD 941 dps
DRK 970 dps

Gear can also be seen at the begin of the video

So basically that breaks down to the below I think

WAR 1021
DRK (with debuff) - 970
PLD (with debuff) - 941
DRK (without debuff) - 881
PLD (without debuff) - 855

Would need numbers when people are MT'ing to work out total composition damage. For Faust at least I did 714 DPS as PLD MT today with this gear (http://i.imgur.com/CY5GO3P.jpg). That was with Shield Oath up for 3 combos then switching to Sword Oath then switching back to Shield Oath at 6 stacks (which I could probably get away with not doing for a slight DPS increase)

Parses I've seen of MT WAR's on Faust were ~830-870 when filtered to just Faust damage but I have no idea on their gear.