This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Sapphic]

But telling someone their DPS doesn't meet a check isn't and should never be considered abuse. DPS using a tool to better themselves shouldn't be a "under the table hush hush" thing.

This.

It's fine to call out tanks and healers when they underperform to the standard needed to clear content, but call out a DPS? Nooo, you might hurt their feelings as they play how they want and everyone else is supposed to carry them......

DPS need equal accountability as the healers and tanks.

I play DPS.

[Gilraen]

The originator isn't asking for any kind of altruistic development of the community, they are asking for parsers to be able to make people better. Don't need a parser to do that, just need to learn your class' abilities. Sadly, there's no extended training area like Dunes or Qufim to help teach that, only dungeons and if things go sour in a dungeon people get pissy and angrily start pointing fingers. Noone learns anything except how to hate 'elitists' and how long you have to wait before /voteabandon'ing. Parsers will only feed those flames as people will start demanding/requiring numbers and /votekick anyone that doesn't comply. All that really matters is that people do their best and learn their class' abilities. If this is all we ask of players then maybe they won't be so prone to 'hiding' and actually try to stand on their own.

[Assirra]

In theory...
Everyone knows how it would be used in practice though.

The OP could just tell his party members that they don't do enough dps and should check their rotations with a guide. No need to point out anyone specific, but just tell it to everyone.
Not passing dps check is a clear enough indicator that the total party dps is insufficient, and that should be enough to indicate to everyone to look over their contribution.

Which also fails in practice.
99% chance the one that is actually failing will not check his dps or rotation since he thinks he is the master of the universe.

[Purrfectstorm]

In theory...
Everyone knows how it would be used in practice though.

I don't understand this logic against parsers. I assume you mean that people will exclude others from groups if DPS is not a certain number or give them grief about their numbers? That seems to be the main argument that I see most of the time. However:

1) Groups are already exclusionary. They require having certain gear or gear level, having a certain achievement, no tome bonus, having someone vouch for you, or some other indicator that you know what you're doing.

2) Players already give others grief: tanks for positioning or CDs, healers for not healing enough or DPSing, DPS for standing in AOEs, and a million other reasons.

3) Most players/groups are using parsers and are already quite open about it. I'm on PS4 so I don't parse but nearly every group I'm in has at least one player parsing. These players are not shy about talking about their parses OR giving players grief about low numbers. Furthermore, I've even seen PF messages calling out certain players for extremely low parses. Yes, this stuff is reportable but it already happens all the time despite being against ToS.

Long story short, the only thing not having an official in-game parsing tool does is deprive console players of a tool PC players are already taking advantage of. I think having such a tool would add to my overall enjoyment of the game because I could set goals and really see how far I could push my job. Players can already tell who bad DPS players are right now, even if they don't have an exact measure of how bad they are.

[Greven]

A thing you can do is watching closely what a DPS putting low damage is doing wrong, once I found a Dragoon not using Heavy Thrust .-. But in case you don't know that DPS optimal rotation you can fake you know and tell him that his rotation is wrong that he needs to get better to do this kind of encounter. You can even suggest him to check this forum.

[Ashkendor]

you try being a dps, bruh. its not as easy as it is to complain about it.

Think about why its difficult: healers and tanks have one other to be synergistic with. DPS have three others. Three other completely different mindsets, playstyles, approaches, and experiences. This is also part of the reason why FC/static groups move forward more than PUGs. They are used to each other and the way they think. BIS EX is so much more than a cookie cutter instruction and is very often overlooked on its complexity.

This doesn't explain how I can put out more damage on my Paladin in Shield Oath than some DPS players do. DPS don't have to synergize with each other to get their job done. They follow mechanics (just like the tanks and healers do, shocker) and they hit the boss. When I'm on a melee, I don't even look in the ranged dps' direction unless we need to perform a mechanic together. When I'm on a ranged, I don't take much note of what the melee are doing unless we need to perform a mechanic together. DPS don't need to know what each other are thinking in order to dodge mechanics and do their rotations. Honestly, the reason why static groups tend to move forward more quickly than PUGs is simple - hours of practice and voice communication.

"Synergizing" isn't a thing here; it's just a word you've slapped on it, and it's no excuse for putting out bad DPS. Bad DPS is caused by not knowing the mechanics, not knowing your rotation, or not having your gear set up properly. All three of these are easy fixes, but the problem is that many players can't take constructive criticism. Even if you offer nicely to help someone who isn't putting up the numbers, it's even money that they'll just lose their shit and scream "Don't tell me how to play my class, elitist scum!!" instead of listening to your advice.

As far as Bismarck EX, mechanically speaking it's the easiest EX primal. That DPS check is real, though.

[FoxyAreku]

People are bad. Maybe you should get some friends or FC people to help you.

I did this fight in only a couple tries with most of the group being 160 item level, it's really easy...I'm constantly baffled as to how DPS can be so bad at their rotation as to fail the dps check, it's not even that high.

[Februs]

Yeah thank goodness that's impossible right now :P

It will be a problem later though. Before the coil came to DF, you occasionally ran into some very cutthroat people who would kick and replace as necessary until they got the team to do the job. It became standard practice, weeded out the weak, and was kinda built into the PF etiquette of the end game raids. Once that stuff hits DF, though, it's not so easy to boot people. You can get reported for it.

[Sapphic]

This doesn't explain how I can put out more damage on my Paladin in Shield Oath than some DPS players do.

Nerf PLD! PLD DPS OP! They do moar damage than me even when I roll my face over the keyboard from left to right and not right to left! pleeze fix SE!

XD

[Februs]

Hide? More like how the heck does a DPS even know he is bad if he has only played among other bad dps?

That just makes things worse lol. It happens all the time. Bad dps try to hide among the other 3, but you end up with a group that's all bad or only one good. It's a nightmare. The thing is, there are some dps that try to exploit the fact that we can't readily determine which one is bad... unless there is a very clear difference. Sometimes a player just clearly outclasses another and it's fairly obvious, but, that aside, there are some who are just looking for a carry. Bad players can improve. Players who go in thinking they can be lazy or hide are just toxic to progression groups, often wiping them, even in the easier fights like extreme primals.