A1 Savage Astrologian PoV

[Vlady]

I am aware that they are not a WHM or SCH, however casting 3 aoe heals the entire 10 minute fight is not pulling your weight in the aoe department as much as you should. Sure eos can just whispering dawn every minute, sure the sch can waste a stack of aetherflow for indom, or waste 1300 MP on a emergency tactics succor, the sch is pretty much carrying the group in the aoe department, and you cannot say otherwise. Just because the AST "isnt a whm" doesn't mean they aren't supposed to aoe. It's the fact they simply CAN'T aoe heal without going oom in a fight like that. It's because of that reason the sch is unable to increase dps with selene, or go cleric to help with DPS, sure they are a healer, and healers heal, but in the progression world you often need to help dps to make progress.

Astro needs help, please stop trying to play it off with "oh they are helping the raid with their cards." They really ARE NOT. It has been shown that selene helps with dps more than a AST with their cards. Sure the newly fixed MP TP cards are useful, but AST's utility simply does not outweigh their weakness. Period.

The astrologian needs help? Minus SE giving us two silly cooldowns and stance nerf the only thing astrologian at most needs. So much negativity when its already proven that the astrologian can heal all aspects of the game.

[Ghishlain]

The astrologian needs help? Minus SE giving us two silly cooldowns and stance nerf the only thing astrologian at most needs. So much negativity when its already proven that the astrologian can heal all aspects of the game.

Has there been an AST that cleared A3S yet this week? This is very important as the first groups clearing A3S were this week. If an AST-centred group cannot clear A3S this week, this shows either:

1. No one is bringing AST to high end tiers of progression
2. AST doesn't have the capability to handle A3S

And yes, this is a very serious question as if AST is as capable as everyone makes it out to, then they will have a clear group this week. It doesn't bode well for AST balance if a group with an AST can't clear this week.

[DarkmoonVael]

Has there been an AST that cleared A3S yet this week? This is very important as the first groups clearing A3S were this week. If an AST-centred group cannot clear A3S this week, this shows either:

1. No one is bringing AST to high end tiers of progression
2. AST doesn't have the capability to handle A3S

And yes, this is a very serious question as if AST is as capable as everyone makes it out to, then they will have a clear group this week. It doesn't bode well for AST balance if a group with an AST can't clear this week.

Also interesting to note that its not just vs SCH and WHM that AST is losing out of in savage. AST is the only one of the three new jobs that is failing to find a place in progression raid groups in Savage at the moment with both DRK and MCH finding functionality and places within progression raid groups.

[Staris]

Also interesting to note that its not just vs SCH and WHM that AST is losing out of in savage. AST is the only one of the three new jobs that is failing to find a place in progression raid groups in Savage at the moment with both DRK and MCH finding functionality and places within progression raid groups.

I severely doubt anyone beat it this week without using DK/Warrior/Ninja. Does that means paladins suck? No. Also the sample size of groups that have killed a3 is like 2.... so rather hard to draw conclusions from what could amount to personal preference and time practicing.
Its not hard to do the healing on A3 savage as a astro, my group is progressing just fine. In fact I would hypothesize I could solo heal it up to the end of the add phase, getting the tanks to survive all the firechains without adlo would be the trickiest part (mainly because they are wearing melded str/vit accessories).

[DarkmoonVael]

I severely doubt anyone beat it this week without using DK/Warrior/Ninja. Does that means paladins suck? No. Also the sample size of groups that have killed a3 is like 2.... so rather hard to draw conclusions from what could amount to personal preference and time practicing.
Its not hard to do the healing on A3 savage as a astro, my group is progressing just fine. In fact I would hypothesize I could solo heal it up to the end of the add phase, getting the tanks to survive all the firechains without adlo would be the trickiest part (mainly because they are wearing melded str/vit accessories).

PLD are still an integral part of the raid groups that are pushing progression. What is happening is that in the higher floors, PLD is being subbed out for DRK to push that little bit more dps. Ninja and WAR are also pretty integral to push progression DPS. The other classes you havent mentioned are MNK, DRG, MCH, BRD, SMN And BLM. Usually the other raid spot for melee can be taken by either of the two other melees, both bringing abilities and on par dps to the raid. The caster spot can be determined by either taking a BLM when high single target dps is needed, or a SMN where sustained and aoe dps is needed, both also offer significantly similar single target dps. The dps "support" slot can be interchanged without much hassle, although if you run two casters, BRD offer more dps increase in that set up, whilst MCH does the same for two melee party composition. So what we can see is that there is a lot of interchangeability offered in these classes; tanks can be swapped out on floors to play to their strengths; dps can be likewise, depending on melee, caster and support roles and compositions. Healers, however is an entirely different story. AST offers significantly less than the other 2 healers, both in healing throughput, utility and party buffs.
So trying this kind of turntable logic with me where your just trying to say "people are using DRK over PLD in certain circumstances is the same as you saying people are taking any healer over AST" just doesnt cut it. Fallacious logic is fallacious.

AST right now is in a weaker position than both SCH and WHM in terms of healing, utility, buffs and dps in raid settings. Right now, out of Tanks, DPS and Healer classes, the Healer section is the only one where one of the jobs is glaringly behind the other .

[Psychosamm]

The astrologian needs help? Minus SE giving us two silly cooldowns and stance nerf the only thing astrologian at most needs. So much negativity when its already proven that the astrologian can heal all aspects of the game.

Really you think that's all Astro needs help with? How about the fact they have no means of increasing their healing potency aside from noct stance, which is generally regarded as worthless, when their healing potencies are lower than the other 2 healers to begin with? How about the fact that they still have glaring MP issues? They are forced to use Ewer on themselves instead of shuffling for the party, they are forced to use Celestial opposition on themselves (as seen in the video) for LA and ewer instead of using it on the party. Because of this their already weak card buffs are being wasted even more so, with no added benefit to healing.

[TatoRazzino]

So.... how exactly was your AST better than a SCH/WHM combo? Care to elaborate further? I'm genuinly interested in knowing. What about the DPS check on AST/I'm guessing WHM? Combo. And how is nocturnal better than SCH? How would it be easier to help out the WHM keeping his targets alive than as a SCH?

In case you missed it, I have elaborated it in here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...read%21/page14
And I didn't say "better", I said easier for my group, because I spotted a lot of windows to use ASTs cooldowns and some skills that SCH doesn't have or that it has with restrictions. I never, not once, tried to say that AST was a better or the best healer; I only said that a skilled player/group can do anything with any composition, and that different parties require different strategies to achieve the same goals. That applies to every job in the game, not only the healing ones.

[TatoRazzino]

Anyway, for me the biggest issue of AST is the range of spells, it's worse than any of his supposed issues

This is true. Medica II has a 20y range, while Aspected Benefic has only 15y (just like Succor and, if I'm not mistaken, Indomitability). It seems they want to give the upper hand in AoE healing to WHM, since they have the most skills in that area (Cure III, Medica, Medica II, Assize, Asylum) while AST and SCH have less (Helios, Aspected Helios and Collective Unconscious x Succor, Indomitability and Whispering Dawn). SCH is also less effective in this field, since one of them depends on Emergency Tactics (which puts it on cooldown, and they lose the possibility for 30s of using it to make Adlo a big heal), the other on an Aetherflow stack (which consumes one Lustrate that could be used in that minute) and the last one on using Eos (which makes them give up the Haste buff). Maybe they could increase the range of Aspected Helios while under Diurnal.

[Esmir]

Can anyone explain why the scholar was doing the aoe healing? To me, seemed like the AST was only healing one tank.

[Leiloni]

Trust? No, just NO, its just not efficient at all to use AoE as AST

That's actually not true at all. When 8 people are taking damage, an Aspected Helios is incredibly efficient. It's actually more efficient than Medica II for only slightly less healing. Helios is also more mana efficient than Medica and by a larger margin than AH vs Medica II. AST is in general a very mana efficient healer when played correctly, but I don't doubt that many do not play it correctly. That's our schtick - less healing potency, but also less mana per potency. We're the quick, efficient healer.

The only situation where the WHM would be better is where the base heals are not enough. In situations where you need Divine Seal/Fey Illumination, then WHM and SCH come out ahead. The lack of good healing cooldowns is one of our biggest issues, along with cards not being potent enough to make a big enough difference. So we do not need changes to our base healing toolkit. We do however need better cooldowns.

One thing to keep in mind however, is that there are times when the SCH/WHM cooldowns are unnecessary and overpowered. There are a lot of bad WHM/SCH out there who pop cooldowns when they don't need them (OMG SO MUCH DAMAGE! Must pop Divine Seal and Medica II and maybe a Medica! OMG I'm out of mana, quick pop Assize/SoS - in a situation where another WHM may just pop a standard Medica II and trust the HoT to do the work because they know there isn't more incoming AoEs anytime soon). The healers that do the first thing, and feel like they need those skills more often than is really necessary, play a class like AST and don't know what to do.

AST DOES need better cooldowns, absolutely, and please let those be added/fixed/changed soon, but don't forget that SCH/WHM are very idiot proof healers because they have so many get out of jail free cards. I'd rather find a really good WHM/SCH video and compare that to the best AST videos. AST does need work, but let's focus on what it's issues truly are and not talk about stuff that isn't.