I severely do not like Bow Mage.

[Tokyozombie]

I've leveled up BRD to level 50 back in 2.0, and I rarely had to move often in boss fights while the boss was still targetable. Level 58 right now (currently spamming The Vault for level 59), and I STILL haven't had to move that much in most fights while still hitting the boss. The only boss I can even remotely say that I had to take off WM for was Sohm Al's last boss, at which point I was having to do it only for the comet phases to run them out. So no, you didn't move a lot in 2.0 for most cases, and you don't move a lot in here in most cases for any significant DPS drops.

why would you ever base a class on leveling? raiding, expert dungeons, pvp and even 24 man dungeons are where the game starts. I didn't base my opinions on the class change until trying it in neverreap, fractal continuum and Bismark EX.

[RyuDragnier]

why would you ever base a class on leveling? raiding, expert dungeons, pvp and even 24 man dungeons are where the game starts. I didn't base my opinions on the class change until trying it in neverreap, fractal continuum and Bismark EX.

The following is what I'm seeing just from boss mechanics.

Neverreap boss 1, all untargetable moments are when you have to stand in his shadow's mist just to hit it, other than that and the occasional AoE, nothing to dodge.
Neverreap boss 2, outside of needing more than one totem taken out of a field, you're not off the boss at all.
Neverreap boss 3, dodging tornados and the boss, this one I admit you're dodging quite a bit on.

Fractal boss 1, if you're standing at the diagonal between the slashes, you barely need to move at all outside of the ton of AoE circles he does sometimes.
Fractal boss 2, outside of the charge move and avoiding his large AoE immediately afterwards, no movement.
Fractal boss 3, no movement outside of not being in the same space as a land mine and the glowing spaces when he clears the field of obstructions.

Alex 1, no movement against Faust, dodging slightly for AoEs and maybe moving to get the adds in position (depending on whether or not the other DPS can grab them both easily).
Alex 2, no real movement outside of normal AoE dodging.
Alex 3, Sluices and the magnets only.
Alex 4, the normal small AoEs here and there, to a laser if you need to block it, and maybe orbs.

Bismarck EX, just dodging the AoEs, tornados, and being in/out of mid depending on weather.
Ravana EX, the only times you dodge while attacking is the orbs and Final Liberation.

85% of the time in almost all of those fights you are not moving much at all, and you're telling me that BRDs move a lot?

[Aiselia]

snip

So what I read here is "There's no movement except for when there's movement". Also, "There's movement required in all of the bosses". So... I guess thanks for proving that you need to move in all the fights?

But man, with all this non-movement, those melee saying they deserve higher damage for having to avoid AOEs and BLMs complaining about having to move and drop their Enochian really don't have much to complain about, eh? Or do they have to move but Bards don't for some reason?

[Tokyozombie]

"you don't need to move, except when you need to move."
thanks for proving my point.

[Pheonstar]

So what I read here is "There's no movement except for when there's movement". Also, "There's movement required in all of the bosses". So... I guess thanks for proving that you need to move in all the fights?

But man, with all this non-movement, those melee saying they deserve higher damage for having to avoid AOEs and BLMs complaining about having to move and drop their Enochian really don't have much to complain about, eh? Or do they have to move but Bards don't for some reason?

I've heard BLM is lacking on DPS because they are moving too much as well. Exactly what I was thinking when I saw this.

[RyuDragnier]

So what I read here is "There's no movement except for when there's movement". Also, "There's movement required in all of the bosses". So... I guess thanks for proving that you need to move in all the fights?

But man, with all this non-movement, those melee saying they deserve higher damage for having to avoid AOEs and BLMs complaining about having to move and drop their Enochian really don't have much to complain about, eh? Or do they have to move but Bards don't for some reason?

Considering melee is always a danger zone and have the highest risk/reward out of DPS, they're fine and those complaints are from bads. And BLMs do have to deal with as much movement as BRDs do, but the good BLMs will move the shortest distance to safety before going back to casting to keep Enochian up. So yes, those complaints are unfounded, much as the complaints here are.

Because I now realize why you guys are complaining...you're complaining because for the first time, BRDs actually have downtime from attacking like everybody else. Before you could keep attacking no matter what, but now you're experiencing the downtime that every other DPS class up to this point has felt, and it drives you nuts. But you have one thing the other classes don't...for heavy movement times, you have CONTROL of your downtime. You can shut off WM and go back to full blast no downtime until the movement is over...so you can have your cake and eat it too. You can have both the rewarding damage of WM and the movement without it...because it's a toggle move, it's not on all the time. Figure out the times you need to turn it off, and maximize your DPS.

"you don't need to move, except when you need to move."
thanks for proving my point.

So you guys are complaining that you have actual downtime for once like all the other DPS classes have had forever? You're complaining that for once, BRDs now have moments where they can't attack just like everybody else? That you now have to wait for safety to attack? You are not a special snowflake class, you are going through what everybody else goes through for the first time simply because you now have downtime whereas you didn't before. As I said above, you have control over that downtime. Turn off WM if you're going to move so you can still attack, and then turn it back on when you no longer need to move. It's that simple, and you need to get used to it, because SE isn't going to get rid of WM when all you have to do is toggle the move off for heavy movement.

[Aegrus]

Because I now realize why you guys are complaining...you're complaining because for the first time, BRDs actually have downtime from attacking like everybody else. Before you could keep attacking no matter what, but now you're experiencing the downtime that every other DPS class up to this point has felt, and it drives you nuts.

This guy gets it

[Duelle]

But you have one thing the other classes don't...for heavy movement times, you have CONTROL of your downtime. You can shut off WM and go back to full blast no downtime until the movement is over...so you can have your cake and eat it too.

Not really. Having the cake and eating it in this case would be WM having no cooldown instead of locking you in WM for 15 seconds after using it. Granted, that creates other issues (constant stance-dancing, for one), but considering that it's essentially a button that exists for the sake of having a button to push, that's not really surprising.

So you guys are complaining that you have actual downtime for once like all the other DPS classes have had forever?

Because BRD was designed around that "lack of downtime" from the ground up. You can't even chalk it up to it being just the long-time BRDs that have an issue with this. There's even people picking up the job post-HW's release that seem to find the change jarring, and that's not a good sign at all.

In short, WM's implementation is lacking at best, terrible at worst. If the intent was to add cast times to lessen BRD mobility, doing it through a toggle at lv52 is not the way to go about it.

[Tokyozombie]

snip

Before bard settled for lower dps for mobility for 2 years. Instead of creating some bard skills that should be cast at the right time they borked it by giving most important skills a cast and slapping this stance on it. I'm for down time but I didn't pick bard to be a full-fledged caster and I'm not going to roll over and accept bad design like you are.

[Sessurea]

...you're complaining because for the first time, BRDs actually have downtime from attacking like everybody else.

Bards have no downtime. Pretty easy to drop and re apply wanderers. I drop it for the adds in a1/baiting resins. Hurts my dps? NP I got 2 dots ticking on each boss. If you gotta move and you just applied wanderers, then there is feint. Same deal as heavy shot, but instant , 30 less potency and 20 extra tp cost. I never used it yet though....but it's there. Bard zero downtime. All cri babies need to stop, really.