I severely do not like Bow Mage.

[Noira]

You know I've yet to see what the complaints even are. All these good bards pulling decent dps in savage...like I said if you came to the forums every job is failing <.<

[FaizeD]

The casting is fine. It's not your cup of tea, but that isn't really an issue of game mechanics, now is it? If you're salty because SE changed a job that they created and own then whatever, that sounds like your personal trauma.

The problem is that it doesn't synergise smoothly with BRD's various off gcd abilities and procs. There are ways that this can be fixed without gutting WM, because let's face it, it's here to stay. That and that it seems virtually every other job gets more useful support abilities than the designated "support" job. Where is our Dancing Edge? Where is our Disembowel? Where is our Storm's Path? DRG's got Battle Litany and we got Warden's... Paean?

[dielray]

You know I've yet to see what the complaints even are. All these good bards pulling decent dps in savage...like I said if you came to the forums every job is failing <.<

It is important to note that of the 2.x classes, bard changed the most. WM impacts, for better or worse, nearly every skill and ability(main exception being songs).

There are many types of bards. Not every bard dislikes WM, and those who do dislike it don't all dislike it for the same reasons. Let's recap a bit.

Reasons some bards like WM:
1) Damage. Bard is doing the same damage relative to other classes that it did in 2.1+. Boasting on the increase that WM brings is as misinformed as complaining on damage lost. There really is no change either way.
2) Play style. Not every bard played 2.x bard because they loved the mechanics of the class. Some are forced in by their static, some just really like support, some just really like bows, and some just chose archer first and hadn't had the chance to try other classes. Some bards liked 2.x bard the most, but still prefer bard under WM.
3) Skill gap. In 2.x, bard had a really low skill floor to do acceptable damage. WM widens the damage gap between skilled bards and lesser skilled bards.
4) Challenge. Some bards find movement mechanics challenging and enjoy the challenge. Some bards enjoy the challenges in maximizing the oGCD.

Reasons some bards dislike WM:
1) Damage. See #1 under likes.
2) Mobility. Previously, bard was the choice for those who didn't find reduced mobility enjoyable. In a way, the only option for these types of players was taken off the table. It may be hard for these players to understand the reasoning why, considering bard wasn't generally considered OP previously.
3) Play style. Many bards landed on bard because they found the way it played to be the most enjoyable. WM changes nearly everything in big or small ways.
4) Clunkiness. These bards don't necessarily dislike WM itself, but rather how cast times interact with the skill set. Things like bloodletter resets, straighter shot procs, repelling shot, flaming arrow, and empyreal arrow all behave in a way some bards find jarring.
5) Too challenging. These bards want an easy mode.
6) Reduced challenge. As has been pointed out in this thread and other bard threads many times, 1.5s casts don't really provide much of a challenge to players of moderate skill. In general the GCD has been simplified and emphasized, playing closer to a "lazy" 2.x bard. The players previously trying to maximize bard were doing things like instant reaction to straighter shot proc and quad barrage. Although these were a really tiny portion of one's DPS, they did require a fair bit of concentration and focus which some bards find more challenging than BRD under WM.

Bards who will never be happy:
1) Support. Although the impact is high, actually using a support ability is a rare treat. Bards who want bard to play a larger support role will forever be disappointed.
2) Damage. Those bards who want bard's damage to be the same as SMN and BLM in nearly every encounter are very unlikely to have their dreams come true.
3) Those who hate change or like to complain. Every class has these guys. Even WAR.

[Tyrius]

Do you guys wanna know why they changed bard? BC ALL YOU BARD PLAYERS COMPLAINED YOU DID SHIT DAMAGE SO THEY GAVE YOU A 30% INCREASE IN SKILL DAMAGE WHY YOU ASK???? BC YOU ALL WHINED ABOUT YOUR DPS COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER JOB instead of adding more support ability's they turned you into this ''Bow mage'' they buffed your dps so you can hold way into the 1k's like everyone else your own damn faults. (btw I find the cast time not so bad and you can slide towards the end of the cast timer old BLM trick to move so git gud)

[mb52139]

Do you guys wanna know why they changed bard? BC ALL YOU BARD PLAYERS COMPLAINED YOU DID SHIT DAMAGE SO THEY GAVE YOU A 30% INCREASE IN SKILL DAMAGE WHY YOU ASK???? BC YOU ALL WHINED ABOUT YOUR DPS COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER JOB instead of adding more support ability's they turned you into this ''Bow mage'' they buffed your dps so you can hold way into the 1k's like everyone else your own damn faults. (btw I find the cast time not so bad and you can slide towards the end of the cast timer old BLM trick to move so git gud)

Don't presume to lump all bard players into one group. I liked how bard was before, and never complained bout dps. I should just forget about your comment and lump you in with all the noob dark knights I see that don't know how to tank.

[Tyrius]

Don't presume to lump all bard players into one group. I liked how bard was before, and never complained bout dps. I should just forget about your comment and lump you in with all the noob dark knights I see that don't know how to tank.

Edit '' Most'' sorry

[RiceisNice]

It is important to note that of the 2.x classes, bard changed the most. WM impacts, for better or worse, nearly every skill and ability(main exception being songs).

Reasons some bards dislike WM:
3) Play style. Many bards landed on bard because they found the way it played to be the most enjoyable. WM changes nearly everything in big or small ways.
4) Clunkiness. These bards don't necessarily dislike WM itself, but rather how cast times interact with the skill set. Things like bloodletter resets, straighter shot procs, repelling shot, flaming arrow, and empyreal arrow all behave in a way some bards find jarring.
.

These two reasons are why I can't get myself to play bard after capping it (which I only did out of principle since it was my previous main and it shares non-eso gear with MCH).

It's clear enough that WM was literally slapped onto BRD without a second thought. I was under the huge impression that MCH would be the one that'd have more of a stationary stance to increase damage output after some of the intial class previews. Ironically enough, MCH is more mobile than bard in WM/GB due to their procs and hell, the job trailer before and XXI live letter showcased bard with WM and they did not even mention GB at all for machinist.

After leveling both BRD and MCH, the two jobs, despite all this, play with an extremely similar concept in mind under the effects of WM and GB. Similar in the sense of scholar/arcanist dps...not similar in the sense of BLM/SMN... You refresh DoTs, you watch for procs, and use oGCDs as they come off, but WM doesn't even allow bard to reliably fulfill the second part. I'm not even deciding which class to play because the encounter is better than it or which one of the two has a more appealing concept, I feel like I'm playing the one that frustrates me less because of their design.

[Taban]

Do you guys wanna know why they changed bard? BC ALL YOU BARD PLAYERS COMPLAINED YOU DID SHIT DAMAGE SO THEY GAVE YOU A 30% INCREASE IN SKILL DAMAGE WHY YOU ASK???? BC YOU ALL WHINED ABOUT YOUR DPS COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER JOB instead of adding more support ability's they turned you into this ''Bow mage'' they buffed your dps so you can hold way into the 1k's like everyone else your own damn faults. (btw I find the cast time not so bad and you can slide towards the end of the cast timer old BLM trick to move so git gud)

Except that bards are in the exact same position they were pre change in dps ranking. The clunkiness is what bothers me the most, but it's silly to think they added it so they could give us more dps when our dps hasn't changed.

[Aiselia]

I now realize why you guys are complaining

No you don't.

you're complaining because .. BRDs actually have downtime

Swing and a miss.

now you're experiencing the downtime ... it drives you nuts.

I've leveled all of the classes to 50 and went through at least all the 24-man raids with each class, experiencing all their downtime through leveling and the various stages of end game. In addition, I quit my Bard at 56 pre-buff. I moved to a SMN/SCH. I only went back to BRD to finish it off to 60 because all of my retainers at the time were archers.

I was completely fine with the downtime of the other classes the whole time.

Maybe you should stop trying to speak for other people. You're not doing a terribly good job of it.

[Mikedizzy]

So many threads on this and yet I come into another one. Bard is great and I like the changes. The cast times are not big deal, I rarely have to take off Minuet.