The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[bbkkristian]

My problem with Heavensward and future patches, which its been probably stated and rebutted before, is that they are too limited by their own game mechanics. Notice, how further we go in the game that mechanics arent becoming less than obvious. They are getting so complex, it makes the community toxic for newcomers. The "How was I supposed to know that?" factor. Its getting to a point where they can only go more and more complex to really innovate their own battle system. Its either that extreme, or the HW Final boss example: you literally encountered every single one of those mechanics before. There wasn't anything new in that fight. Its the new classes and abilities that make the battle system truly fresh again.

Another limitation is the Tank/Healer/DPS limitation, on paper it seems obvious that it works and works well. But I feel that the game never truly went anywhere with it. The furthest SE went with this design choice was to limit the Tanks to 1 during ST/WOD.

This game is a jewel in many other aspects, but I feel its battle system limits the creativity and makes the upcoming patches predictable. Yes, I'm using the argument: "we're getting 2 new dungeons, a new boss, and a new tomestone". Then I go try out those new dungeons, use my previous knowledge from past fights to predictably pass the fight with ease. Then I go to the boss, and do the same. Tomes? I stop caring at that point because it doesnt add anything but your specific stats and glamour.
I exclude Ultra-raids content such as coil/AS, because i choose not to participate in the struggle of dealing with other players in them. (the shame about being in a casual FC).

[Saggo]

In short, special stats are a design nightmare. They do nothing more to the bottom line than complicate things, for the player and developer both. They've heard feedback regarding the desire for it and have said they'd 'consider' it. But keep in mind consider is not accept. They've carried the same speech on this since Beta. I'm not expecting it to change soon.

Really, I'll never give developers a free pass because something is hard, design or balance. Quite frankly, it's what they're paid to do, "hard" doesn't change that.

But why I don't think it'll be done, as bored as I am of just more INT, is the vertical progression and strick gear sets. People will naturally find what's best and use it.

[Sandpark]

I got one solution for the vertical dilemma.
Classes:
-Make them horizontal progression and cap at 1/2 the ilvl of jobs.
-Limit classes post level 30 to solo or duo with companions.
-When resigned to solo/duo, everything doesn't boil down to dps but survival as well.
-Classes get the "Special stat X gear" and jobs get vertical gear.
-Classes could have their own version of heals, dps, control, etc.
-Classes could have skill trees since they are not as homogenized as jobs.
-Classes could have skill morphs.

And all this would be possible because classes could be horizontal and jobs vertical. Why would we want classes horizontal? For any content besides raids, for viable solo/duo content, for open world content. And when you party up for the difficult party stuff, you can switch to a job. Then it becomes a la Dark Souls esque, you can be a elemental blade wielder with high defensive skills or a magician in heavy armor, or a ranger with pets, or a ranger with magic, or a conjurer with a great axe. Another option would be to unlock the armoury system cooldown when switching between classes on the fly. PvP would be a lot more frantic and some classes would be overpowered at certain things. And that's ok because this wouldn't be raid type content where everyone has to be equal. You just go out and kill or group up with a friend and cause some mayhem.

[Dererk]

I got one solution for the vertical dilemma.
Classes:

No please let classes die.

We need ideas to go forward on job progression not go 10 steps back to make classes useful we need better open world end game content. Because everything related to jobs and battle and magic is behind duty finder.

[Sandpark]

No please let classes die.

It's as Hyrist said. The only progression jobs are likely to get is vertical. Any content open world under this vertical system would end up being made too easy or suffer people complaining about performance issues. Then if jobs start getting vertical and horizontal, this problem would compound the problem as parties would need each other less. If you need to see proof of this with open world content mixed with horizontal progression and no duty finder, go play ESO or read their forums.

[Dererk]

It's as Hyrist said. The only progression jobs are likely to get is vertical. Any content open world under this vertical system would end up being made too easy or suffer people complaining about performance issues. Then if jobs start getting vertical and horizontal, this problem would compound the problem as parties would need each other less. If you need to see proof of this with open world content mixed with horizontal progression and no duty finder, go play ESO or read their forums.

No I will stay here and complain to they make better open world game play.

I know jobs will be vertical but your idea to make classes useful is a waste of time when we need better open world stuff cuz guess what it's just for crafters and gathers not people who's sole focus is battle roles.

I would think you as a DPS main would love more stuff to do out side duty finder to get better stuff like tomestones and gear.

[Sandpark]

No I will stay here and complain to they make better open world game play.

I know jobs will be vertical but your idea to make classes useful is a waste of time when we need better open world stuff cuz guess what it's just for crafters and gathers not people who's sole focus is battle roles.

I would think you as a DPS main would love more stuff to do out side duty finder to get better stuff like tomestones and gear.

Oh I would love more varied stuff to do for endgame gear. I would just prefer non instanced stuff for solo/duo/light party or 8 man. Things more akin to Sea, Sky, Abyssea. All those things I was quoting are just more of the same. Instanced dungeons with required nuances.

[Nordya]

While I have yet to experience Heavensward itself, reading the posts on here, it does sound like your typical complain of a vertical progression mmo. The trapping is they can't really change the formula since its a dungeon/raid for better gear treadmill. That wouldn't change without a solid revamp of the core systems.

Now could they add more activity to the game, yes they could have. From what I read it's pretty much do the story, grind same dungeons. I imagine later patches will bring the same things 2.X brought. meaning more dungeons with higher ilvl and new raids. Not everyone likes or do that.

[Seryl199]

While I have yet to experience Heavensward itself, reading the posts on here, it does sound like your typical complain of a vertical progression mmo. The trapping is they can't really change the formula since its a dungeon/raid for better gear treadmill. That wouldn't change without a solid revamp of the core systems.

Now could they add more activity to the game, yes they could have. From what I read it's pretty much do the story, grind same dungeons. I imagine later patches will bring the same things 2.X brought. meaning more dungeons with higher ilvl and new raids. Not everyone likes or do that.

3.0 feels pretty safe, while they did add a lot of content, not much of that content is different. Over the course of 2.0, they did add a lot of activities, treasure maps, Gold Saucer, Hunts, beastman dailies, and such, but Heavensward has done little to expand the list. I think Heavensward added some good base content, a nice expansive overworld, and a progression system that we're quite familiar with. We're just getting a bit antsy waiting for something to do in that world since gear progression is the only thing occupying a level 60 character's time, and that gear isn't even truly necessary for someone who's not a full time raider.

[Gardes]

So is your complaint that you got to much content? Items? WTF?

This is the problem with the game I think: having the majority of the playerbase thinking that gear = content and SE catering to this hard. I mean, a couple days I even saw someone in the forums basically admitting that he cares about getting new loot, regardless of the venue and what the gear actually does for his class. As long as he attends something and walks away with something.

If this game is chuck e. cheese, the majority of the player base here doesn't actually care about how many game machines it has, as long as one or two machines keeps giving out the most gift tickets. This expansion is basically a re-opening. Everybody rushes in, everything looks new except some people realized none of the machines changed. It's all the same attractions with different face plates. And when some people complain (they want extra new machines), the rest hisses and jeers and points at the new items in the exchange booth as proof that expansion/renovation isn't skin deep.

Disclaimer: I've never seen a chuck e. cheese. We had Timezone where I lived and I gathered they're similar (but do correct me if I'm wrong).